The Twelve Tribes in The News

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How do you know if a group is a cult?

Tuesday, March 11, 2008

Truth in Advertising


Do you want some hips and thighs with that burger?

Fast food restaurants don’t advertise the number of calories, fat or cholesterol that is in their food. They don’t tell you if you “Have it your way” you may gain ten pounds and not fit in your bathing suit come summer. Instead, they attempt to sell you on an experience and they take advantage of your hunger and desires to draw you into their establishment.

Another and possibly better example is the endless adds for Credit Cards that give you 0% interest for some period of time and tell you that you deserve to buy anything your heart desires and when you charge up a high balance start to charge you 20-30% interest. Then you are trapped because you gave into the advertisement, and now you are in debt and the debt is growing because of the compounding interest. Sure you did this of your own free will, but if consumers were given the whole truth up front, do you think as many would fall into the trap?

This is how it is with falling prey to a dangerous coercive control group (or cult). They entice you with a false outward appearance (1). They are selling an experience. This is why they will say, “Come visit us” or “Stay with us” verses talking to you about their beliefs and practices. Sure they will offer a superficial belief statement such as “We believe God is waiting for a people with one heart and one way who live together and love each other and have everything in common. Come visit us and you will see”. So what makes them different from any communal group that says the same thing? They won’t tell you up front. You won’t know until you visit them, and stay with them a while.
. And that is when they start the process of what is known as cognitive dissonance by those who study Coercive and Controlling Groups such as the TT. This is where a person is purposely manipulated starting with controlling their environment. This is why they want you to “come”. While you are “there” they start playing with your emotions and controlling the information you can access that may provide an alternate perspective. There is a reason the TT brings a bus to deadhead concerts, it is a “mini-utopia” a place where prospective recruits can “experience” a taste of how they live. But even if you do decide to live with them for a couple weeks or a month, they don’t share their inner doctrines with you. They also don’t lock you in a room and keep you prisoner. You are free to go at anytime. This will cause you to believe that all the stories of “bondage” and “mind-control” are false. Their goal is to get followers who are willing to give up everything and make a commitment to submit to their authority. They really don’t want forced prisoners who want to break away any chance they get.

How can they convince you to want to submit to their authority and give up your free will? They start by telling you that everything you have learned and heard outside is from the “evil one” and you need to “clear your mind”. Simultaneously, they “love-bomb” you and give you a taste of utopia to get you in the right state of mind so you can “receive” their message. You start to think, “How can such sincere loving people be wrong”? They seem so happy and satisfied and all their needs are met. But unfortunately, you are only given the veneer of the real truth. In reality, most of the followers are dog-tired and struggle to stay faithful. They are worked 80-90 hours a week and don’t really have the time to live this utopian life and love-on their kids the way they say they do. In fact many of the accusations and condemnations they make of the outside “world” and “Christianity” specifically, are true of them. (see the comparison of fruit in the Parable of the Twig article). So it is not until you come to a point where you are willing to “die to yourself” and “give everything” to follow “Yahshuah” do you start to get a glimpse of the truth. And like the poor credit card holder, it is only after you have quit your job or dropped out of college, left your family and sometimes that means husbands/wives and children, told them they are all going to hell unless they follow you, turned over your vehicle and bank accounts and have no means of providing for yourself that you are given access to the “pearls” or inner teachings. Of course this is after you are baptized where you are required to denounce your former beliefs (Christianity or other religion/philosophies) and make a vow to “never leave” the body.

This is when you hear that Yoneq is the “anointed” and has a direct line to God and his teachings and words are equivalent to God speaking (2) and therefore are to be followed without question. You learn that he is the Elijah that has come back to earth to call people out of the world (3). That Christianity, (which is their main target for recruitment) was an apostate church that has not had the Holy Spirit (Ruach Ha Kodesh) for over 1900 years (4). That you are not allowed to think or “reason” for yourself about anything outside of the teachings and direction of Yoneq and his band of elders (5). And unless you beat your children until their wounds are blue, you are not being a loving father or mother in fact you hate your children. (6) And if you are a good little follower and submit all your loyalty to Yoneq’s teaching, you will one day be a God of your own Universe or Galaxy (7). And these are just a sample of the bizarre teachings that you will be expected to believe and submit to without question.

And what if you choose not to submit? And what if you want to ask a question? Then you are free to leave. In fact you are encouraged to leave and sometimes just plain asked to get out. The only problem is, you have already alienated your family and friends, you have no money and you own no vehicle and even the clothes on your back are not yours they belong to the community. If they are feeling generous, they will give you $200 to “get by”, but ultimately you are “cut-off”. (8)

So I ask you, if the Twelve Tribes put a poster up in front of the Mate Factor stating these beliefs, do you think people would want to give them their money? How about bring their kids and stay for a couple weeks? So what would constitute honest full disclosure/advertising and recruiting for the Twelve Tribes?

“Welcome, please spend as much money as you can with us because we need to ensure our Prophet has enough money to expand our real estate holdings and fly around the world starting other communities where people like me can nearly starve and raise our children and beat them until they are black and blue. You are welcome to move in with us as long as you denounce all other religious loyalties and promise you will never leave, and be willing to submit unquestionably to our elders and supreme leader who is in fact the only conduit to God. Please leave your brain outside as you are no longer allowed to think for yourself because our elders will think for you. But please bring your money, real estate, stocks and bonds and everything else with you so we can liquidate these and give the proceeds to our Apostle to spend as he sees fit. And we want you to have it your way so if your wife or husband does not want to join you/us, that’s ok. Abandon them because our Prophet Elijah says they are going to burn in the Lake of Fire anyway. Oh, and we have a no-money back guarantee. If you do choose to leave us, or we decide with little or no notice to kick you out, you will not get your money or any of your belongings back and you will drop dead because God will kill you. Have a nice day”

Voice.

Please send any questions or comments to VOOCITD@gmail.com

(1) TT (Yoneq/Spriggs) Teachings concerning being “perfect” for outsiders and withholding the truth or outright lying in order to “make a stand”:

“The only thing we have to be perfect in now is confessing our sins and speaking to people on the outside. Or your conscience will haunt you night and day.” September 2 1990 Apostolic Workers Meeting Minutes.

“There is a difference between bearing false witness and concealing a matter (not telling the truth) that others have forfeited their right to know because of their hostile and evil attitude toward God.” November 29 1988 Phase 2 Teaching – Yoneq page 1

“Sometimes we make a stand with the truth by not revealing the truth or by our answers that are or are not true.” Nov 29 1988 Phase 2 Teaching – Yoneq page 1

(2) Teachings that demonstrate Yoneq/Spriggs speaks for God. In the quote below, understand the only one who the TT considers to have “delegated authority” from God is Yoneq/Spriggs so what he in fact is saying is to obey himself without argument as you would obey God.

"All who know God and know authority will obey his word, will obey Him, will obey His delegated authority without argument." Acts 3:23 - If we do not obey every word he speaks to us we will be cut off. November 18, 1990 Reasoning – Page 4

(3) Quotes concerning Yoneq/Spriggs being in fact the Elijah and having God’s authority.

Note, the following quote is regarding a woman who died of cancer who was a long time member of the TT. They could not explain her untimely death without finding some fault in her life or un-confessed sin. She was accused of speaking ill of Yoneq once years before and therefore rejecting God’s authority and not “receiving” Elijah.

“No way if Mary disrespected God's authority could faith come to heal her - Numbers 12 No way her children could be saved Malachi 4:5 If (you)don't receive Elijah (you)don't receive(the) anointing (your)children will be accursed - no hope.” September 2, 1990 Apostolic Workers Meeting – Page 5

Here is another quote concerning Elijah being in the midst of the TT. They are referring to Yoneq and the spirit that he has brought to the TT.

“Keli told us we can know the spirit of Elijah is in our midst because of how we are continually brought back to the necessity of turning our heart to our children.” August 6, 1996 Apostolic Workers Meeting – Page 3

(4) Quotes concerning there being no true church for the last 1900 years:

“Everything has been in abeyance for at least 1900 years — put off for a future generation to fulfill. Abeyance — put off, it’s no longer in existence. 1 Pet 2:9 is no longer in existence. There is no people of God; there is no holy nation; there is no twelve-tribed nation; there has been no one keeping the way of YHWH for 1900 years — it has been in abeyance.” April 9, 1995 The Fall of the First Church – Page 3

“Therefore the evil one been a ruler for 1900 years. They crucified the very Son of God — YHWH in the flesh. They killed Him! It proves who is in control of the world — Satan rules the whole world.” April 9, 1995 The Fall of the First Church – Page

(5) TT Teaching concerning peoples right to “reason” or think for themselves vs submitting to authority

“Many people are enslaved by a spirit of reason. They will only come when they are called and go where they are sent when it seems right to them. They always want to know a reason. If they are under this bondage of reasoning, sooner or later slanderous words will come out of their mouth against authority and there will be no possibility of escape from death.” November 18, 1990 Reasoning

(6) TT Teachings concerning beating children until they bleed:

“Underdiscipline accomplishes nothing. It is better not to discipline our children at all — “The blueness of the wound drives away all evil.”” October 1980 Child Training -Notes from Teachers Meeting - Page 5

“Unless your son has blue wounds, by this standard, you know what kind of a
standard is in you — it is the spirit that hates your son. If one is overly concerned about his son receiving blue marks you know that he hates his son and hates the word of God.” No date – Execution of Justice – Page 1

(7) TT Quotes concerning being “cut-off” due to not submitting to authority or the teachings of Yoneq. A member can be “”cut-off” within the community and not allowed to participate in social activity or be asked to leave.

“What do we have that' s greater than our attachment (staying connected) to our Master, Yahshua, and His people? Do we think that we can put aside our life for awhile and leave the Community and go out and do other things and then come back?” May 19 1994 The Seriousness of Being Cut-Off from Messiah – Page 5

“In the nations if you join the army and go to battle and desert the battle you could be imprisoned or even killed. (A deserter is worthy of death - if he falls into the hands of the enemy he will betray you.) It's a serious thing to be in a battle and desert your troop. You have to see that we're in a war here. This is our Father's army and you can't so easily come back. We made a pledge at baptism not to leave.” May 19 1994 The Seriousness of Being Cut-Off from Messiah – Page 3

(8) TT (Yoneq/Spriggs) Quotes concerning followers becoming gods of their own galaxy:

"We are going to be holy people. Holy, set apart by the Holy Spirit to accomplish His will. The day will come when each one of you has a galaxy to rule over." [source: "The Three Eternal Destinies #74 - Three Categories of Man 5" November 19, 1996. Morning Minchah, Reuben. Teaching identifier: 961119A]

"Rev 1:6; 5:10 — He has made us to be kings and priests — that’s who we are! We will rule over galaxies. When people of the nations see us, it will be just like seeing the Father (Jn 14:9). We will bear His name, His character, His image, His authority." [source: "Salvation is a Free Gift (But Who Does He Give It To?)" December 1997. Coxsackie, NY. Teaching identifier: 9712T08]


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101 comments:

panterus said...

awful strange coming from somebody who describes this as a "love bomb". what does that say about the author?

panterus said...

sorry, i meant advertises not describes, i must be tied of reading all this slander!

Bill said...

Panterus - given all your recent activity it appears to me that you are the one who enjoys slander. You are quite defensive of the TT. You don't have much content or substance to your posts. You appear to be just another TT propaganda pusher.

panterus said...

the subtance is ther you just need to look for it. as far as slander goes are you saying that a slanderer a slanderer is slander! my intention is to point out what i see, isn't that what a blog spot is for, to speak your opinion on agiven subject? are you the same bill that was defending the community in the article on the money machine? if you need to find more substance than that what subject would you like to discuss?

Bill said...

Panterus: I am the same Bill who posted on that article. However, I was not defending the TT. I was stating the issue could easily be resolved if the TT was more forthcoming with their financial information like most charitable organizations are. You would think, being who they claim to be, they would want to set a higher standard than all the "heretics" they criticize. I have to admit, I was hopeful they would do just that, but there has been no response and to the best of my knowledge have not made this information public.

panterus said...

I guess the community isn't a charity and anyways asking them to reveal all of their finances is kinda like sticking a flashlight up someone rear, don't ya think? what is on the table is that they love one another enough that they don't worry about what they're not getting and concentrate on loving one another enough that they don't about what they're not getting...etc...etc...etc!

nabashalam said...

Shouldnt the TT be a charity? What did Yahshua say about that? And what about "true religion"? They only take care of their work force!

And if they aren't a charity then why do they claim tax exemption? According to the law of the land, if you claim this exemption, your finances are public information!

They try to love one another, but that's as far as it goes. If you don't embrace their theology, then your damned to hell...

panterus said...

first off they are not tax exempt are they? they file taxes every year at all the communities around the world. secondly if they are so poor as you say, not being able to take care of their childrens teeth and all, then where should all the charity come from. the only charity in the twelve tribes is from the hearts of the volunteers that live there and the people who choose to support them from outside the community. now there is some "truth' in your "advertising"!

nabashalam said...

They file under a 501 d exemption!

Secondly, they are NOT poor! They make millions but it doesnt find it's way to the proletariate. It is spent on expansion!

The "Truth" is the "hearts" of the "volunteers" (poor description) is the only thing the "volunteers" can give because they are given nothing(finances) to work with!

I have respect for those who "give up their lives" to the cause but have nothing but contempt for those who "choose to support them" from the outside! Your half assed! Luke warm!

panterus said...

if you want the whole ass, here it is. I have lived and worked in the communities on and off for the last ten years. I have seen that they do make a fair amount of money. I have also seen that not every last need is always fulfilled when you expect it, but I have seen the needs fulfilled when possible. It cost a lot of money to get everyone's teeth worked on, you know. it costs even more, however to sustain a competent business. Again, and one would hope for the last time, the people in the community choose to overlook their own personal needs for the overall needs of the community, which in retrospect is more important, for that is what will eventually provide their personal needs. I can tell you from observation and experience that the people are in the community are well fed and healthier than the average person outside the community. I have seen no limit to the decent clothing and bedding provided, people may have their circumstances, but overall they are significantly better off than most. If you really think they are suffering greatly, ask them, and look in their faces when you do! Honestly, I don't know too many people that can afford mostly organic groceries on a daily basis and in good proportion, as well. I think that those volunteers are very happy with the produce of their labors, heck, when you have all the clothes, food, friendship, love, support, and entertainment you need, why even think about money! In fact, most of them are satisfied to be without bills and payments and credit cards and all the frivolous things of the world. Most people might even see that as freedom not slavery, but it is those who seek after money and power and objects to fill their souls with that stand out in a community that seeks to rid themselves of these things, and it is obvious to them when they see such a person and sometimes they ask the to leave and seek those things elsewhere, other times the wiser of those types of people leave on their own because they can see that they are in the wrong house!

Jodymcgrody said...

"panterus said...

if you want the whole ass, here it is. I have lived and worked in the communities on and off for the last ten years."

Since when does the TwelveTribes allow anyone to live and work "off and on" in their group? Were you a baptized member? Or just a local hanging out at their cafes? Once again someone without a clue to how the TwelveTribes really operates feels the need to defend them because they "seem like such nice people".

They're not. They have no problem dumping people off on street corners without a dime after they've used them up. Or tossing entire families out with no assistance or remorse for the hardship they cause. Yes, literally on the streets.

They are a religious organization that operates like any other organization. Your either in the loop and enjoy the benefits or your part of the masses to be used and manipulated at will for the benefit of the few.

They conceal most of what they really believe from the public and work hard to maintain an image that nothing to do with the real life inside.

Besides, according to their beliefs your going to the lake of fire, so why are you bothering to defend them in the first place?

panterus said...

Do you realize that they self admittedly do not have the final judgment call they leave that to our Father. They judge situations to their greatest capacity, and in some cases rather severely depending on what they can see in a man, but the final judgment is still from our Father. If you don't have a bad conscience why worry so much? I can understand being threatened by a judgment call from the community because they are fairly just, but if your conscience is clean it is not and end all to life. Most of the time people are asked to leave more from the backlashing of a judgment than the actual judgment itself, I'm sure you have seen that happen before. Our response to such judgments can be a reflection of why the judgment was made in the first place, even I can understand that, even though I've had some fairly strange judgments put on me! Our Father judges our hearts in deeper capacity than any human can, if the conscience is clear there generally won't be any backlashing, but if there is and the conscience is still clear it is a sign that the person was probably not ready to deal with that situation, now that is an example of the judgment our Father can bring verses what a human can see. Sometimes people can judge quickly based on what they can see and backlashing can just encourage them to continue and to make things worse for the person that isn't receiving regardless of the reality of the situation. That has happened to me more times than I can count and in most cases it was because I was not ready to deal with it, although I may have been right about the situation itself. I have been learning to take such strong judgments in stride and not react to them, because I realize that these people in our Father's house are not perfect, although they are striving to be, and in some cases I even realize that I may have had a fault in situation where I was judged, even when I didn't have a bad conscience about it and I realized I just needed to change. I have been treated harshly over the ten years I've been around the community, but I still have forgiveness for those who treated me this way, even when they were wrong. Humans are limited in their capacity to judge because of their localized viewpoint of situations, and if I can see that and see that my conscience is clear or even if I need to change, then I can forgive that person or persons and try again to do what is right in my conscience and that means loving my brothers whom I gave my life to. I've backpacked from one side of the country to the other looking for answers to these judgments and without a dime to my name, found a way for the sake of a good conscience and for the love of those that I call friends.

nabashalam said...

"They self admittedly do not have the final judgment call they leave that to our Father"

Bullcrap! For one thing, tell that to the man they just "sent away" with no money, credit, work history or family or friends to take him, his wife and 5 children in! Oh that will make him feel much better!

So when they tell you that if you break the covenant with them you are going to the lake of fire they really don't mean it?

What about when person dies in the Tribes and they "judge" the death and tell everyone that the person died due to their sins and they are going to the first death and are not with Yahshua? Are they just guessing?

Im so happy for you that you have found your perfect dominatrix to administer your penance when you feel you need it, and just leave if it's to much for you or give them your precious forgiveness when you judge they are wrong in their judgment of you!

Your just as sick and deluded as they are and you deserve each other....

Yeah, your a tough guy and can handle all their shortcomings but you wouldn't be so tough if you had a family to support instead of being a single vagabond who can live out of a ruck sack...

Jodymcgrody said...

Panterus you need to start thinking for yourself and get all their mumbo jumbo out of your head.

They lay claim to having the Holy Spirit. That means bearing the fruit of the Spirit. It's not complicated.

If you say you have the Holy Spirit and then dismiss all the bad stuff with "well, we're only human" what does that say about the Holy Spirit your claiming to represent?

Get all their mental mumbo jumbo out of your head and take a real look at what they are.

A good tree doesn't bear bad fruit, or come up with a thousand excuses for bearing bad fruit. That's a bad tree.

panterus said...

their judgment may be a bit off at times, but they are fairly clear and accurate with most things, far more than the judgments i've seen on this website, that sound more like the gnashing of teeth than sound judgment. calling with slander and derogatory remarks is a sign of the real sickness that lies within, like i was saying they judge that many times even when that is not what is on the surface yet, like it is obviously surfacing on this site due to their judgments of other matters. It just really shows where a persons heart is at.

paxvox62 said...

If people have had experiences, such as being "dropped-off" without a nickle to their names, this is indeed sad. The possibility of this happening should be known as people decide whether or not they want to accept what goes along with giving up everything for what they deem to be the "pearl of great price". Beyond that I have to say that I don't understand where the steady stream of animosity toward the Twelve Tribes is really coming from. I am not a member, but someone in my family is. She is a brilliant and talented young woman who could have chosen any path in life, and has never been prone to making irrational decisions. She has been a member for 3 years now and could not be happier. I talk with her on a regular basis and have visited numerous times - staying up to a week at a time. She knows that she always has a place to go should she decide to walk away - as many members do who have family outside the Community - but she is at peace and happy. (By the way, she has also been able to spend weekends with family outside of the Community.) She has a husband and daughter, so I am quite familiar with minute aspects of their day-to-day lives, such as child training. I am bewildered that with all the real problems in the world that need to be resolved, so much time and energy goes into propagating all of this negativity against a group of people who really are kind and loving. Is it possible there may be some in the TT who are not living "saints" - I suppose so. I have yet to meet a perfect human being. As a matter of fact, many -if not most, of the Biblical patriarchs had serious flaws. That being said, having been a very religous person my entire life, I have never met a group of people who lived out their faith with such joy and diligence. Besides, have you looked around at the state of the world? Have you watched television? Have you seen any of those horrendous virtual killing sprees they call "games"? Sarcasm and catchy abbreviations have become the method of communication for most kids. Heartthrobs OD on anti-anxiety meds, and teen pop-chart queens pose partially nude for magazines. So, there is a group of people who have rejected this world and all the garbage that goes along with it. So, sometimes people become members who may not have fully grasped what the life would cost them. Aren't there more heinous things happening out there to critique? Hmmmm...what about Middle Eastern kids getting limbs blown off by land mines? What about what's happening in Darfur? What about all the children around the world who once again went to bed on an empty stomach? What about young girls and boys who run away from abusive alcoholic parents and end up selling their bodies on the street? The people in the Twelve Tribes are safe, they are clothed, they have enough to eat, they are surrounded by people who love them, they are living for a purpose larger than simply feeding the senses or gratifying desires or keeping up with the Joneses. If there are bad experiences out there, by all means share them. Tell the facts, and your side of the story - because remember, it will just be your side of it...and (in keeping with your truth in advertising theme)"let the buyer beware". Spare us the venom. Hopefully I will not be attacked for sharing my views on this matter. Please be kind, I wish you nothing but peace. Let us live, and let live.

nabashalam said...

paxvox62... Thanks for your well thought out and sincere post. I receive it and welcome you here...

I worked with "Voice" as a adviser and tried to help him keep his emotions and bitterness from creeping into his articles and comments as I tried to do the same with myself. Unchecked emotions can destroy the credibility of facts and skew the readers opinion of what is trying to be conveyed.

Yes there will always be better and worse scenarios happening in the world no matter what you are addressing. And I sincerely doubt any of the worlds problems will be solved here but this place "YATTT" is a place to address the specifics of one of the problems.

It is a "sounding board" of sorts where people can share their experiences with the Tribes, inside and out. And also a place where they might find someone that knows and has experienced the same things. There is nothing more healing then getting validation, a "witness" if you will, to their story and receive empathy and a "I feel ya!" from their peers.

Yes there are people here who have good things to say about the Tribes and rightly so because yes there are loving and caring people in the Tribes and they have many wholesome attributes and live lives of servitude BUT! As in all groups there are injustices and double standards but the problem with the Tribes is that they do not admit these nor repent and try and make amends. Their pride is destroying them.

If they would only drop their false humility, confess their pride of being "better" then others and being the "only ones", admit their "humanness" and truly love, care and live for each other the healing they so desperately need will begin...

( I wont even go into the cover-ups of sexual sins or the harboring of sexual predators or sending them out into the world without pressing charges or alerting worldly authorities of their whereabouts...)

If they don't, their numbers will continue to diminish. Yes I see they are slowly falling apart and definitely not increasing. They have hovered around 3,000 members for 30 years and that number falling. They must have had tens of thousands come and go. Some for a year, some for 30! In the past few years they have lost many "Elders", Shepherds and even industry heads that had been there for decades. Also many youths, many young married couples and many "children of Elders"!

So yes, live and let live but when you have surrendered, given all and have been hurt, including their children, by those who are suppose to be authorized by "God" and are caring for your mortal body and your eternal soul, then don't chastise those who feel compelled to warn others who are drawn to the Tribes and say "BEWARE! BAD DOG!"

But remember paxvox, we are glad you are here! Please forgive us but we are all out of milky mate' and cookies" LOL!

Anonymous said...

HOW TO DESTROY THE BODY:

We are pretty much aware of the destructive influences from without, but we need to be careful that the enemy does not destroy from within. The greatest fear should be the allowance of emotions to persevere in our decisions rather than the diciplines we need to maintain, according to principle. We may have a tendency to feel that we should be accorded privileges for ourselves because, perhaps, of our physical working abilities or length of time, seniority, in the body. We may think that because of this the children of those of the aforementioned deserve priority considerations as far as placements of responsibility and, or, authority. In carrying on in this way we are most prone to create a spirit of covetedness in ourselves and our children; a spirit of dominance rather than a spirit of service.

Nepotism or cronyism has no place in our Father's Body. All positions need to be based on the evidence of those bearing the true fruits of the spirit no matter when they came into the Body. We do a great harm letting others believe that they will be elevated due to certain positions of responsibility because of familial connections or because of their longevity in the Body, or, just because they have, or came in with certain skills. For any member of the Body to harbor this mindset is to harbor a spirit that threatens the whole of Yahshua's concept of the common life and brings in the worldly concept of power and privilege of "for me and mine first". This is contrary to a life based on the evidence of "the fruits of the Spirit" that we are to consider in placing our members, and rather fosters the competitive and covetive spirit of the world, which is in reality, the dividing spirit of the evil one. In our fears of losing our children to the world we should not and can not let them think that they will be chosen above others because of their relationship to us, and we can't place them in positions of privelege and responsibility in place of others that should be, in order to cause them to stay in the Body. They would be staying for the wrong reasons. If our children or others leave and see the real evil in the world, then they will come to their senses and come back if they were raised, and/or, nutured in love and not harshness.

To have a system that mirrors the worlds, as far as promotion and privilege is concerned, creates a class system, or a clergy/laity spirit. This will be recognized by many and the Body that should have been growing by the Spirit's principles, rather than worldly emotions and methods, will become stagnant. This is the same Nicolaitan spirit that stole the "first love" of the Body that Yahshua began. The lower class will become a system of those coming and going because they will come to the realization that the common life concept that they had hoped for was just that, a concept, a theory, but not the practice. They would see a system in which a selfish spirit of nepotism and cronyism reigns and not a system wisely maintained by Yahshua's Spirit. Those that stay will stay because they fear the lake of fire, not because of the evidence of the true Spirit of love that once was their hope in being drawn. The evil one knows that this will destroy the Body and common sense will tell you that this type of system needs to be avoided. The system of the world is not Yahshua's Body. This system is not of faith. It is the method of the world mixed with the hypocracy of claiming to be Yahshua's Body. "The beast" by any other name is still "the beast". It doesn't have to be that way, but it will if you allow it. We need to pay serious attention to 1Cor.12: 12-26. and Acts 6:3

nabashalam said...

Wow! This sounds just like a TT teaching! And if it is, they should pay more heed to it because that's exactly what has been transpiring for the past 30 years in the Tribes!
The clergy/laity system!

Every facet you mentioned is a perfect description of how the Tribes function.

And just to add to one of your points; If any of their children/youth leave, they are not drawn back with love and the promise of love but just the opposite. They are chastized and pressured with guilt and fear. They are not "loved" back in but are frightened into returning.

I have heard from some TT apologists and current members point out and actually wag their fingers and say "SEE? Look at the youths that have left and what they do in the World! They go crazy and become drunks, drug addicts and concupiscent bums!"

But what I see are young men and women who are taking back what was stolen from them! Their right to have experienced a childhood and a right of passage from that childhood to adulthood.

Who here hasn't gone nuts in their younger years, while their hormones "rage", and experimented with what the world had to offer? Some of us were over-imbibers and made damn sure we tried EVERYTHING!

But there came a time when those things lost their appeal, played out their part, and we moved on to the cornucopia of choices and paths that the Universe opened up to us and went "walk about".

I just pray the wonderful young men and women who left or were eschewed by the tribes come to a point and time in their new found lives where they heal from the damage left by their incarceration in the tribes.

Also I hope they shed the bitterness,(which was actually helpful at one point and something we all experienced)forgive their captors, and move on to the endless possibilities of life that await them...

Eric Christopherson said...

I decided not to return to the Twelve Tribes, even though I have been visiting as a former member and like the people and culture in many ways.
One of my good friends and a Tribes shepherd said that I "have been touched by Satan" because of various criticism I have read about the Tribes and testimonies of former members.
Another newer member had bad things to say about my 15 year old son who is shy and doesn't like the communities that much. In every community there's usually one jerk with a fried brain..
Make no mistake about this: they truly believe black people should still be servants to white people IF they have not joined the Tribes.
Black people within the Tribes are very loved and equal, but are not to show the disrespect and arrogance of their ancient ancestor Cham, one of Noah's sons.
The Tribes clearly taught me when I was a member that it was a good thing that Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King Jr. were killed.
This is what is really disturbing about the Tribes, you have really nice people, mostly, and a wonderful culture in many ways, but then thrown into the mix are some really messed-up teachings, definite racism applying to Jews and blacks OUTSIDE the Tribes, hitting children with thin rods as young as six months and by any adult member (which further opens the door to potential sexual abuses, which, Yes, have occurred.) The Tribes wants children safe to be sure, but communal living and members hitting other people's children in private make abuse easier to occur. When really bad things do happen and are exposed, the police are rarely called. The Tribes has been a sad confusing chapter of my life that's hard to forget in positive and negative ways. I wish Tribes members the best, I like most of them very much. I know by writing this and other statements, the Tribes will accuse me of spreading "lies and slander" but at the same time, they are always saying people "should not let their human voice be silenced." I want them to have a life of love, and not be exhausted and run down. To continue to love God and even leave if they wish and not fear Death, or to stay and be happy.
I do not think think they are "the only true work of God in 1900 years", or "the only place where God's spirit dwells", far from it!
But I love them, and wish I could be friends with them, without them thinking they are right about everything, and everyone else is under the control of Satan.

nabashalam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
nabashalam said...

I am posting this here so it is on the home page so those who aren't familiar with the site and the navigation of it or have the automatic email notification when something new is posted...

I wanted to revisit the "Ha'Emeq Affair" and just lay it out in black and white why the Kahol/Meeting/Judgment of Marsha's fornication and adultery was a sham. It was swept under the rug, hushed up and is still not common knowledge amongst the Tribesmen and she was whisked off to a different "church" just like the Catholic Church likes to do with their pedophile priests.

First let's take a look at a genuine Twelve Tribes Teaching titled "The Personality of God in Us" August 25, 1994 - Morning Sacrifice and the section on
"Sexual Immorality"
You have become one Spirit with our Master, Yahshua - don't join yourself to someone else. Anyone who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. Our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit - you are not your own anymore - you were bought with a price - you were purchased by His death on the cross - you are one with God. The new translations omit the rest of that - "glorify God in your bodies." So you can see that it would be unthinkable to involve our Master in sexual misconduct. This is why people have fallen away and could not be restored no matter what they tried to do because they went over the boundary of His love. There's no way to re-connect them. Even if they didn't totally connect with the other person (the other person didn't go along with them), their intention was to.

So you can see that sexual conduct is only meant for marriage - it involves ones whole being - it has a great spiritual significance, a social thing. It's the most horrible thing that could happen in the Body to have this relationship outside of marriage. You have to be deceitful to hide it, to pine away for it, to die and leave. You have to leave - there is no way you can stay unless this has happened before you came to the knowledge of the truth. But we have trained our children now to come to Abba and Emma when something strange occurs. If you haven't trained your child then you're an obstacle in the Body and you will be removed. It's sin against the Body - do you understand this? And not only against the Body, but a sin against the Holy Spirit who dwells in the Body you've connected yourself to. If we've been purchased by the blood of our Master - we honor Him - we belong to Him. If anyone in the Body has been restored it is because our Father had great mercy on us because we didn't fully understand what we were doing (we were led into something).

So we can see the difference with the Body of Messiah who committed fornication with the world and aligned herself with them (the harlot) - Rev 18:2 - all the unclean birds came in (Christianity). "She became a harlot" - became indicates pre-existence in something else. The Son of God became a man - it was a miracle. Yahshua existed as God eternally, but He took on humanity. This was the miracle of the virgin birth - the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary and she gave birth to a son and she called Him Joshua which means Yahshua (Yahweh saves). (end of section of teaching)

So how can Ha'Emeq continue to live in "The Body"? And does this not defile and taint everything she has ever said, taught and made law?

nabashalam said...

And just in case you missed it or it has been kept from you by the elders... I wanted to post this to where hopefully some current TT members will be able to read. If this is new to you, this is the letter that came out around August of 2008 and yes, it is 100% factual and true...It is written by Elahav (Tom Rivera) the head elder of the Ithaca Community who left in Nov of last year and it's about Yadutan, A lead elder in Brazil and a major player in the Mate business, who left the TT in Febuary or so...


Why Yadutan and Emunah left the Twelve Tribes...

"I have some information that for conscience sake I need to let others know about. As some may have heard by now, I have been working with Yadutan since he has moved to Florida
close to where I live. When I first left the community, I heard that Yadutan had left the community as well, only about 3 months before I did. I was curious to hear why. At some point soon after, we spoke to one another and the
reasons he gave me were much along the same lines as to why I left.

Recently, he moved down to Florida near me and we began working together in a home office situation. One day I was working from his computer and I found myself staring at
an email that speaks of the main reason why he and his wife left. Naturally, I confronted him about it and he told me everything.

His response was shocking to say the least.
Those of us who know Yadutan, know that he would not have left lightly or on a whim, or just because he “loved the world”. I was quite disturbed to hear his reasons and after much deliberation I have decided that I want my friends to have the opportunity to know the truth about what happened, and decide for themselves whether or not they want to continue to give
their lives to something that is not true.

Also…. before they actually left the community, Yadutan and his wife went to Yoneq and Haemeq to resolve this issue and were unable to get it resolved to their satisfaction.

This is it in a nutshell:
14 or so years ago …. Yadutan was approached somewhat aggressively by Haemeq when he was a very young disciple in the church. Haemeq made sexual advances towards him. He was
in a very uncomfortable position, being “hit on” by the leaders wife. This was happening during the time when the morning and evening sacrifices were being established and taught about on daily basis.

For those of you who remember or have heard those teachings since then, you can appreciate
the enormity of what went on between Yadutan and Ha-emeq.

There were times when she would grab him by the belt loop or hold his hand while they were walking. There were times when they were traveling on their bus that she would slip her
hands under his bed covers and hold his hand at night.

One night she approached himfrom behind on the beach and wrapped her arms around him in an embrace. Eventually he gave in to the temptation and BECAME INVOLVED IN A SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HAEMEQ.. No, they did not have intercourse, or oral sex, but they did
everything else. They would passionately kiss, they would be stripped down to their underwear, lying on top of one another. They would masturbate one another. They would go to
the newly established gatherings unclean, minutes after being together. She would hold his hand during breaking of bread. They would have had intercourse but at one point or another one of them would stop the other.

I understand that this is not pleasant or even dignified to have to read these things, but I don’t know any other way of getting my point across..

I have sat in many meetings judging people for
doing much less than what these two people participated in. I have seen families torn apart because of judgments that have come from Yoneq over youth who have held hands or
kissed.

I have heard and taught on the utter wickedness of going to breaking of bread and minchot over and over again with unconfessed sin much less
serious in nature than what I speak of today.

nabashalam said...

Yadutan is not “blaming” Ha Emeq as being the only guilty one for what occurred, but he was terribly confused and upset in his conscience about what they had fallen into. He encouraged
her to stop on several occasions but she did not want to, and so they continued in their weakness.

THIS CONTINUED FOR A YEAR OR SO until Yoneq and Haemeq left brazil!!! At this point Yadutan was able to clear his head and wrote Haemeq
telling her that they must confess and repent and get forgiven no matter the cost. He told her she must expose it to Yoneq or he would have to do it! .Haemeq wrote back saying it was ok, all was forgiven.

Yadutan continued under the impression Haemeq had exposed herself..

Years later, it is uncovered that Haemeq had NEVER TOLD THE TRUTH. She has continued on in her role judging and mentoring, representing God on the earth, and whatever else you might describe her role to be, with a very very bad
conscience the whole time.

When Yadutan began to see that the tribes were “falling apart” on so many levels , he began to consider the problems , why they never get fixed and the hypocrisy that had risen to the sky.

He called for a meeting with Yoneq. He confessed to his own wife what had happened before they had met, and they went to Hiddenite to have the big meeting. When he got there he was met with what he felt was an attempt to sweep it all under
the rug . Yoneq said that he had just recently learned about the whole matter. He questioned them both concerning what had happened and then he forgave them both, and he told them
that our Father forgave them! That’s it!!!

Yadutan wondered why there was no body meeting , discipline, nothing! How could a husband judge his own wife like this with no
counsel? Others had been sent away for years , forced to marry, or worse, over less! Should Yacob and Qetsiayah know about this, after suffering over what their daughters went
through for committing sins of a far less serious nature?

Should Hur know about how Ha Emeq was judged for 14 YEARS of deceit after seeing his boys judged for sins far less serious?

The list could go on for quite some time.

Should all those cooks meetings be disregarded because Ha Emeq was “in the flesh” when she
taught and led them? THE IMPLICATIONS ARE FAR REACHING!

Think about it…. And what about Yoneq’s response? How many times I have sat and waited to hear from Yoneq concerning our Father’s judgment for someone, whether they should be sent away from the body or not. And this was only after several kahals and fact finding meetings. All the while, those who committed the sins are being held in custody.

He was asked time and again to be discreet and just forgive and “have wisdom and conceal the matter” Scriptures were sent to him encouraging him to keep the matter to himself.
(cont)

nabashalam said...

Yadutan was unable to obtain a good conscience this way and all his experience in the tribes was now in doubt for him and his wife. Even his own position seemed fraudulent to him as he felt “bought” so to speak. He insisted more men be
brought in and so Yoneq agreed and told Nahaliel and Nun.

After expressing their grave concern with the seriousness of the matter, investigating, and finding the whole story to be exactly true as Yadutan had described in lurid detail, they
both began a letter writing campaign to get Yadutan to just “move on” in the tribes.

Yadutan was increasingly distressed by these “elders” inability to grasp the gravity of this hypocrisy. He wrote to them about “the
emperors new clothes”, and the MEN BEHIND THE EMPEROR and the foundations of the community (teachings, tribes, minchahs) being formed
all by those who were living a lie while harshly judging others for their lack of purity.

He does not feel innocent of all this himself, but when he tried to do the right thing, he saw that it wasn’t really in the hearts of the leaders to deal fairly with the truth but to hide it in order to continue their charade.

I have had a lot to do with many people joining or remaining in the tribes. I feel for conscience sake, they are all deserving of the truth and
deserve to know ALL the information that I now have and also to know why Yadutan and his wife had to leave.

This is just a very brief version of a much deeper and more involved story. Please everyone know that Yadutan and his wife Emunah loved and gave their lives to the building of the community, as did my wife and I, but I can not stand by
while my friends unwittingly go on trusting their lives, believing that they are building on something solid.

My faith has been undermined by the reality of what the twelve tribes has really become! I did not easily come to these decisions. It has been very painful for everyone involved and I know for a fact that Yadutan has no joy in having to
live with this. BUT NEVER THE LESS IT IS THE TRUTH.

People can try and contact him if they need to know or verify anything. There are those who will say this is a lie from people who listen to liars, but there pages and pages and pages of emails and letters concerning this matter. There
are those who won’t care anyways and will continue on in the community. This letter isn’t for
those people. This letter is for the people who still care about the truth.. For those who have been on the edge, and even for those who haven’t. It’s a wake up call to our friends in the Twelve Tribes.

I hope this letter gives some closure to the many
ex-members who left and still suffer from guilt of leaving. And also those who were sent away, cut-off or punished for things that are trifling compared to adultery and fornication amongst the HOLY!!! Or those who after dieing in
the tribes were judge unworthy of the cloud of witnesses and sentenced to the first death! - Elahav (Tom Rivera) booboo221@yahoo.com

brett said...

Wow, ya, the 'haemeq affair', nothing more needs to be said, I wonder how much other unconfessed, or undiscovered sin there is in the TT. Without going too far into detail, we can all see by 'the fruit'.???? This is all too much for me to comprehend. They must use alot of spiritual stain remover to get them stains back to white and clean. This is unbelievable, how the TT operates. Like I said, 'nuff said, we can all 'see' whats happening there. And they have the nerve to tell you, your going to the Lake of Fire for leaving them?, My only sentiment to the TT is to get it right, so me and others can have a PLACE TO BELONG, that the wonderfulness and beauty of the Holy Spirit can live in US, and be that light with LOVE in it.

nabashalam said...

The Twelve Tribes are on the wrong path...

They think they are right, they are wrong, but their hearts are in the right place...

No need to circle the wagons, lock the doors or... Or pat yourself on the back because you think your on the right track! YOUR NOT!

There is no clandestine plans that I know of where there are folks out to destroy, take down or persecute the The Communities of the Twelve Tribes. I just know that their are many out here, "in the world", who have left the Tribes, been booted out of the Tribes or would love to go in if only... if only they would finally act like the one they are following. That's the problem! They are acting like Yoneq! Not Yahshua! They are not mirroring the unconditional love of the Messiah! For one, you have to have the Holy Spirit to be able to produce such supernatural love!

So there is no call for the Elders who watch this site from the shadows to add to their delusion that they must be doing something right because of all the "persecution" they are receiving or paranoically fantasize that they will be getting from the "evil one"

There are some there that truly believe I am a henchmen for Satan here to destroy there efforts to raise up the 144,000 and thwart the return of Messiah. If it wasn't such a serious charge about such a critical matter for the souls of men I would laugh but I can't due to it's magnitude and its consequences.

The Tribes need to know that their are hundreds possibly thousands that want to see them succeed! To bring about the return of Yahshua Ha'Mashiach !

But in my heart I know there are some elders who read this who know my heart and knew my heart when I served there with everything I had. Who heard my cry out, literally scream so loud that the fish jumped out of the water when I was baptized. All 3 times!

There are disciples there who know that this world does not HAVE 50 years left to "run the race" which is no scriptural to begin with and reeks of the LAW. Also the fact that they literally don't have the numbers to produce 144,00 males let along virgin ones! And that the they are not boys unsullied by female flesh but by the Harlot and her sisters! The Roman Catholic Church and all her offspring and denominations. Ones who weren't brought up in them or injected with them. Ones who know only the pure Gospel. The WORD. The LIVING WORD Yahshua ha'Mashiach.

Now in order for them to do that, they will need help, they will need numbers and most of all they will need the power of the Holy Spirit that roared through the house on the Pentecost and turned the disciples into the most powerful evangelists ever known. They will need the "Later Rain" and they will need to be ready for it and worthy of it. And were I am standing right now the elders are stained with numerous unconfessed sins. They know what they have done, what they have ordered. They know they have held their tongues when they should have spoken out against the edicts they followed just to appease Yoneq and the rest of the ruling class.

Why do you think they are so stunted? Why are they at Zero population growth? Why do children born and raised there
leave? Why are there as many leaving as there are joining? The amount of those being grafted in are the same amount as the fruit falling off the tree and rotting on the ground.

They may have had the Holy Wind at one time but they have lost it, grieved it and I think as a reminder to Yoneq "He" has left him the same number of converts as were saved in one day with the Holy Spirit's help. 3,000.

So when will you listen? When will you take your fingers out of your ears and your hands away from your eyes and SEE just what is going on! See what needs, no not needs, HAS TO BE DONE in order for you to accomplish your goal of His return? Prepare ye the way of the Sovereign! Be found worthy of the "Later Rain" or all is for not...

nabashalam said...

Judge not or find yourself judged...

Who's listening to Yahshua?
-------------------------------------
Body Meeting - September 2, 1990

"Mary Wiseman's Death"

These notes are the results of a meeting of the "Body" (the
available gathered membership of Messianic Communities) after the
death of Mary Wiseman. The purpose of the meeting was to "discern"
the cause of Mary's death. Why had God allowed this young woman, who
was the wife of the second-in-command (Hakam), to die at such a young
age, and in such a painful, lingering way? Why had God not heard the
prayers of the membership? From CAIC:
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2426&Itemid=8

_______________

Kesher and Sarah:

When it was all over the elders called for a judgment and Daniel said
it was to find out why Sarah had died. Sarah said "I'm not dead!?!"
and Daniel said if Kesher would have had faith and she would have stayed
in the body she would have died and we must know why our Father wanted
her dead.

--------------------------


Jhn 9:1 And as [Jesus] passed by, he saw a man which was blind from
[his] birth.

Jhn 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin,
this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

Jhn 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents...



Jhn 8:4 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken
in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

Jhn 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery,
in the very act.

Jhn 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be
stoned: but what sayest thou?

Jhn 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse
him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the
ground, [as though he heard them not].

Jhn 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and
said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a
stone at her.


Now this was almost 20 years ago but if they have changed and see how they have been wrong then shouldn't they let that be known? And repent and apologize in tears to those they hurt with this? Like Mary's children? Her husband is another story...

But it is apparent they havent changed there ways with the "Kesher and Sarah" judgment.

Let's not forget seeing the double standard in plain sight with the Ha'Emeq judgment.

nabashalam said...

sorry... I didn't make that an active link...

http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2426&Itemid=8

nabashalam said...

YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS
Yoneq got the hand picked leaders to conspire to keep the offense against the "Body" a secret. A secret kept from the proletariat and apparently from "their" God. The only way to rectify the situation is to either execute the same discipline on the perpetrator that others got or to make a
public confession that the writings that were supposedly given by God are not infallible.

This would either demand that Yoneq confess that he unjustly brought judgment on others or maintain that the writings that he issued were correct and then be consistent in executing the same justice to Ha 'emeq that he layed on others. Truth must be consistent, it can not exist in hypocrisy. Yahshua told us to "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy".The problem here is that if he admits error in his
execution of judgments on others, then it begs the question as to what other teachings and executions that he is in error of?

For example, those whose marriages were dissolved because he encouraged members to divorce spouses who either left for one reason or another, or were thrown out in judgment on the basis of his teachings or opinions. How many families were/are ruined by this? How many women have children by a former husband and then again by their husband that she replaced him with from the tribes? How many people have left God all together because of his, Yoneq's misrepresentations?

Yoneq needs to publicly make confession and repent of these atrocities and ask forgiveness from God and those whose lives he ruined, or he will be cast into the
very lake of fire that he has so often threatened others into in order to control them into his idea of truth and obedience. And anyone who continues with him in this farce is going with him. Anyone who sees the inconsistencies and does nothing to correct them is truly a coward, lacks integrity and dishonors God. Due to the clear cut
defiance of his own supposedly God sent writings concerning illicit association and adulterous behavior, and causing those below him in authoritive stations to defy such directives from God, he has made" the truth" a lie and therefore caused his minions to become "liars that listen to liars" for perpetuating this scandalous and hypocritical cover up and all the other suppositions that he taught that lie against the Truth. It is Yoneq himself who has broken the covenant of one heart and one mind. He has become the enemy of unity.

The true God of all creation awaits His name to be cleared from Yoneq's dark misrepresentations.

"Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins."

Anonymous said...

You can't teach the Gospel two ways either. The Tribes confuses the writing of the law, the character of God on our hearts by the Holy Spirit, which brings about self sacrificing love towards God and all men with the Old Covenant letter of the law, which was fulfilled in the perfect One, Yahshua.

THE OLD COVENANT FOREVER LAWS FULFILLED IN YAHSHUA

The Sabbath is forever such as in Exodus 31: “So shall the Israelites observe the Sabbath, keeping it throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant (v. 16). However, so is circumcision forever. “Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant” (Genesis 17:13). Passover is also to be observed forever. “Now this day will be a memorial to you, and you shall celebrate it as a feast to the LORD; throughout your generations you are to celebrate it as a permanent ordinance” (Exodus 12:14). The Day of Atonement is likewise forever. "Now you shall have this as a permanent statute, to make atonement for the sons of Israel for all their sins once every year. And just as the LORD had commanded Moses, so he did” (Leviticus 16:34). Do you observe all these forever things? There are many more things that God says are to be observed forever. Do you observe all those also? You don’t observe those forever things because they were forever so long as the covenant to which they were attached lasted. They were all Old Covenant forever things that have become obsolete with that covenant. “By calling this covenant ‘new,’ he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear” (Hebrews 8:13). Paul under inspiration notes that the entire Old Covenant is obsolete for New Covenant believers. So are all the things that were mentioned above. Now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held that we should serve in newness of Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter (Romans 7:6). That's why Paul directed in Romans 14 that we are not to judge anyone on which day they take to rest or what they eat. Some keep one day some another; some it doesn't matter what day, any day will do. The point is that God wants you to take a day off, and it's to be a whole day for resting and refreshing yourself and your families. The "Ox in the ditch was for an act of mercy that was for the individual, and only took a short while to remedy; it was an occasional thing that one happened along. "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath". And also,Paul says "The Lord showed me that there is nothing unclean of itself" "The kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but rightousness and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost". "For meat destroy not the work of Go. ALL THINGS INDEED ARE PURE, but it is evil for that man who eats with offense" . Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, [that] eat, asking no question for conscience sake for the earth [is] the Lord's, and the fullness thereof. If any of them that believe not bid you [to a feast], and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth [is] the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another [man's] conscience? For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks? (1Cor.10:25-30) "Every creature is good, and nothing to be refused, if it is recieved with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer" (1Tim 4:4,5).

Continued:

Anonymous said...

Cont:

The Old Covenant physical laws were canceled at the cross, but the spiritual significance or symbolism is fulfilled in Yahshua. Yahshua did not come to abolish but to fulfill (cf. Matthew 5:17). Yahshua is our circumcision. “In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by the Annointed Yahshua” (Col. 2:11; see also Romans 2:28-29 and Galatians 6:15). Yahshua is our Passover. “Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed “ (1 Corinthians 5:7). Jesus is our Atonement. “When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing. This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order. When Yahshua came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption” (Hebrews 9:6-12). Yahshua is our Sabbath. "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light” (Matthew 11:28-30; cf. Galatians 4:9-11; Hebrews 4:1-10). And such trust have we through Yahshua to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency [is] of God;Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life (2Cor. 3:4-6).

As a side note the sign of circumcision did begin with Abraham before the Old Covenant, but it was incorporated into the Old Covenant as the entrance sign into that covenant. Thus it became obsolete with the Old Covenant.

We are forever observing the spiritual significance of the Sabbath when we rest from our work and accept Yahshua by faith. Then we enter into God’s eternal rest (Hebrews 4:3-11) which the Old Covenant Sabbath only foreshadowed.

God Bless You

nabashalam said...

There is rest in LOVE but in FEAR there is none...

You see the Tribes live in fear...constantly and yes it is very apparent no one get's any physical, mental,emotional or spiritual rest.
Even the elders who don't labor don't rest because they live in the fear of there own transgressions and the fear of their "overlord" if they do not execute the transgressions given them to perform... BY THE LETTER!

They must be so tired of wrestling with their consciences...

Maybe when they are done then they can be called "Israel"...

nabashalam said...

The TT will probably consider this a badge of courage...(like they need more pride right?)

But they made the number 4 slot on the Christian Answers Network web site...

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aiia/aiia-top10cults.html

and of course they will say it is just persecution from the evil one...

Dear God when will all the men in the tribes finally "man up" and take responsibility for their lives and live their lives with their respective families and maybe, just maybe, enjoy life for a change instead of just "acting" like they enjoy their lives to please their overmasters...

nabashalam said...

Flag this message
For all of us that speak the truth and proclaim that the Emperor who has no clothes...

and to the Elders of the Twelve Tribes...

Ravenous Wolves

To anyone who would criticize the exposure of the conspiracy that has
been entered into by the leaders of the Twelve Tribes, let them consider the the true picture.

They may point to the scriptures about the woman being judged for engaging in adultery as justification to excuse the actions of one of their leaders in authority and claim an unholy accusation by those that have brought the matter to light, but be assured, there is
no comparison at all.

The woman accused of adultery was being used to trap Yahshua into a situation where they could prove that He disregarded the law. He therefore showed that those who were guilty of evil in their own lives had no right to bring accusation against another. "Let he that is without sin cast the first stone".

Therefore, to those who would hide their sins, put on airs of rightousness, while securing uneven priveledges for themselves while demanding a cleanliness of heart that they do not even meet; our Savior had direct, clear cutting rebukes for:

"Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in [yourselves], nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
Mat.23:12-15

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin, and have neglected the weightier [matters] of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead [men's] bones and all uncleanness.Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of
hypocrisy and lawlessness. Mat.23:23-28

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor [can] a bad tree bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Mat. 7:15-23.

To those who would hear and repent and make right for all the hurt that they had done, He offers mercy. He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes [them] will have mercy.
Proverbs 28:13

Seek the LORD while He may be found, Call upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, And the unrighteous man his thoughts; Let him return to the LORD, And He will have mercy on him; And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon.

Isaiah 55: 7,8.

Anonymous said...

Nabashalam is one of Satans henchman. I've seen his union card "United Henchmen Workers of Satan".
Seriously though, Yoneq pays him a stipend to oppose the TwelveTribes so the members can think there's opposition. The whole thing is operated from a branch of the CIA as an ongoing sociological experiment. That's why some people have absolutely dreadful experiences there.
But I'm lying, because it's Halloween.
Surrender your life to God, if He leads you to the TwelveTribes, then you can know thats where He wants you to be.

nabashalam said...

Dude! You just blew my reverse psychology ploy!

Dang! Now nobody will ever join!

nabashalam said...

From the heart of an ex-member about the "HaEmeq" affair...

She want's to remain anonymous and so she shall...

"A person in a high spiritual position has the farthest to fall. Marsha needs to fall on her own dagger and feel what it is like. I want to say as a woman that I feel that this was an affair. Women fool themselves when they think that petting, love making with some clothes on, and such relations are more excusable since a full sexual relationship did not take place. This sexual lust acted out betrays our sexual conscience. We are not fooling God. Misuse of sexual relations in any manner cuts us off from ourselves, others, and God. The Old and New Testament if full of warnings about this. Those in spiritual leadership who lure followers into such sins have a heavy burden. Especially a senior woman leader who is to be an example of faithfulness to her own husband. Proverbs 23: 27...for a prostitute is a deep pit and a wayward wife is a narrow well. It may seem like I am pointing a finger but I know three fingers are pointing back at me so I say all these thoughts carefully and humbly. A full confession to the community and a general confession to the public is necessary and mandated by Jesus Christ for forgiveness and restoration."

nabashalam said...

This is from someone who had a relative join the Tribes and was courted by his relatives to join. They checked out the Tribes and here their conclusion to the matter.

They wish to stay anonymous because they do not want to be "cut off" from their family in the Tribes. And so they shall stay anonymous.

"To say that the Holy Spirit resides only in the Twelve Tribes defies
the clearly defining revelation of it's work by the scriptures. To
claim that for nineteen hundred years the world had no impartation of the Holy Spirit is to claim that nobody had heaven's power to over come sin in their life, for it is only by this power of the Spirit that man becomes restored. "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the flesh ye shall live" "for as many are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom. 8:13,14.

By the teaching of the Twelve Tribes, no man has become a
new man by the only way it can happen, through the Holy Spirit, and for nineteen hundred years men have only been able to walk in the flesh. This means that all their goodness can only havebeen an outward, worldly, politeness and not the unrequiting love thatcomes upon men through the work of the Holy Spirit. By the teaching of
the Twelve Tribes we would have to come to believe that no man or
woman has been capable of true love to their God or their fellow manfor all these hundreds of years.
We would have to believe that if onewho has led a wicked life, and should happen upon the biblical
scriptures, and is encompassed by a Spirit that he has never before
experienced which brings about a conviction of right living unto God
and man, that the Holy Spirit was not the cause of this? That it was
an angel? No angel has been given such power to convict a man of sin,
and righteousness, and judgment. This, as scripture reveals, can onlybe effected by the work of the Holy Spirit, for this is the reason it was given. Speaking of this ministry of "the Comforter", the "Holy Spirit",Yahshua says, " When he is come, he will reprove THE WORLD of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment" John 16:8 (When? only since the Body of the Twelve Tribes has formed?, and nobody has been
convicted of sin, righteousness, or judgment for nineteen hundred
years prior? can you not see the absurdity of such a teaching?)

Our heavenly Father speaks to us in His word. He says " to as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them who believe on His name" John 1:12 ". Name" is synonymous with character, therefore, those believing on His name are those who render
obedience to Him that He gives this power, which is the Holy Spirit if we are to believe Romans 8:13 and John 1:12. He says that He gives His Spirit to those who obey Him. "The God of our fathers raised up Yahshua ...Him hath God exalted with His right hand to be a Prince and a savior for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.And we are His witnesses of these things, and so is also the Holy Sprit, whom God hath given TO THEM THAT OBEY HIM. And, if you hear the Word of God and turn from it in disobedience, then you will not receive the Holy Spirit: "...if any man have not the Spirit of Yahshua, he is none of His" Rom. 8:9.

Having these truths brought out can only bring us to understand that whomever comes by His word and renders obedience in what he
understands of it, will be given the Holy Spirit.Therefore, we must
realize that there are many amongst the denominations, or even those who read and hear the Word of God anywhere they be, in the masses of society or in a secluded location, that by obeying all the light thatthey understand are counted righteous and in obedience and are gifted with the Holy Spirit.

nabashalam said...

There are many individuals in the various churches that are held at variance by their supposed brethren because they live by the closer understandings of our Father's will that they
have been convicted of by the direction of the Holy Spirit as they delve deeper and deeper into His word. These are also those that inour Father's eyes, have not "bowed their knee to Baal". It is an errantly perceived teaching to consider these faithful ones as not
walking in obedience and devoid of the Holy Spirit's presence in their
lives. We must ask at this point, does the God of heaven have a
special set apart Body In which He is bringing about a work for the
closing days of this Earths, as we now know its, history, that will
produce the 144,00 "virgins" that will give the final warning by the
proclamation of the three angels messages of Revelation 14 and the
call to "come out" of Revelation 18? Yes, it is quite obvious to
anybody that prayerfully studies end time prophecy, that this is why
our Father has brought about the formation of the New Israel, the
Twelve Tribes which are in fulfillment of Revelation 7.

Now realizing that there are many of the denominations and of private study that walk after the Spirit and not the flesh in their daily lives, we have to acknowledge that these are the they that the Body is to "call out
of her" that they may become one with the Body. "I heard another voice from Heaven saying, Come out of her MY PEOPLE, that ye be not
partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues"
Revelation 18:4. He calls them "His people", and as we have already seen, no one can be His unless He has given them His Holy Spirit.
We must cease from this opposition of clear bible truth where we maintain that "nobody has the Holy Spirit, but those who reside in the Twelve Tribes". Is one tribe to "call out" from another tribe of the Twelve?
No, His people are the faithful ones around the world that He has
given His Spirit to because of the obedience they rendered to Him in
the best of their understanding. They, as are those in the Twelve
Tribes, are counted righteous for this, and the things that they and
also those of the Tribes had or have yet to understand, are "hid in
Yahshua" like Moses was "hid in the Rock"(Ex.33:22 & Col.3:3) in mercy until further understanding is revealed. Yahshua was not ashamed to call us brethren even though we were not yet what He wished us to be, we, by the same Spirit need to recognize that all those who walk in obedience of the denominations and the greater populace of society are
counted as His and we should recognize them as brethren. They are the "Other sheep which are not of this fold". Any failure to recognize this foments bigotry and spiritual arrogance which is not the spirit that we were called unto.

The presence of the Holy Spirit is without a doubt within the Twelve
Tribes, but the Twelve Tribes itself is not thee Holy Spirit. Because the Holy Spirit's presence is felt strongly in the Body of the Twelve Tribes is by no means to be construed as residing only there. There is without a doubt a special indwelling for the special revelations needed for the work of calling the world to repentance and bringing about the Holy ones and the 144,000, but we can not continue to believe and teach that the Tribes are the sole possessors.

The Holy Spirit is given to all in the society of men who believe as in the capacity and spectrum revealed to us in John 16, but the imparting in the Body is for the bringing about of a special work.

There are yet many things to learn and many to unlearn. Without the corrections that need so much to be made, all the hard work from over so many years will come to naught and our Father will have to start again."


Amen and Amen

nabashalam said...

Here is a new letter from an elder who left, to a disciple who is still in...

and a commentary from a 2nd generation disciple who was born raised by one of the founding couples and left.



http://www.factnet.org/vbforum/showthread.php?p=381880#post381880

nabashalam said...

Wanderlust and the hard sought solution...

It's not "wanderlust", but a God instilled innocent part of our being,
a yearning to explore within the parameters of spiritual holy and
healthy endeavors towards the things of creation that testify of our
Father's love. Things that he has given us the freedom of choice to
learn of and share with others. He never would have given us this
ability to see Him through His creation if He did not intend for us to
avail ourselves of time to know Him and His provisional love through
it. Each of us and our families need this time of perusal and
reflection to enjoy our lives together. This is not divisive and
disruptive of unity, but it is still unity of mind and Spirit to
explore within the innocent and vast things that exist from our
Father's hand for us to enjoy here on this earth. The garden had many
trees to freely eat from. they were innocent choices that were
approved by Him. There are to be many innocent choices for us in the
eternal world too. Paul said to "let your moderation be known to all
men", meaning that over-abundances of things were harmful. We are not
to labor so incessantly that what was supposed to be a light and easy
yoke, through His grace, ends up to be a stressful and oppressive load
bearing down on the physical and mental constitution also unto the distress
of the spiritual connection between God and man. The lesson and
the law of God for man is moderation in all things, or we do injustice
to" the life" and cause valuable souls to leave and prevent the many
from coming in. Instead the orchestration of the life as it now is that it
emanates a spirit of distrust and an unnecessary shackling of freedom
that our Father never designed, as shown by the many choices of trees
in the garden where our first parents dwelt.It's the difference
between a community and a prison. Between the Church and a cult.

The "trees in the garden" metaphor show that in the society of, "on
earth as it is in heaven", there is to be time periods for various
innocent choices for the individuals or families to explore and learn
from in the vast lesson books in nature. This is shown by the metaphor
of the many "trees of which ye may freely eat" in the garden. They are
trees of knowledge, but not of the "good and evil" sources which
caused the great downfall of man. There are vast stores of knowledge
that our Father has maintained for us to discover in nature and to
share with each other. These things speak of His glory, His
benevolence, His love, and His mercy. By beholding them many have come
to learn of the eternal Godhead in multifold ways (Rom 1:20). It is
part of the joy which God has provided for us here. Taking time to
behold and take a deep interest in His works in nature is something
that He desires for us to do. It brings us to a greater understanding
of His ways; His heart. He continually speaks to us and brings us to a
greater understanding of Him through these things.

nabashalam said...

Moderation in all things, and that includes time lengths for
"teachings" as too much information at once tends to cause many
points to be forgotten easily.

It is not just immoderate working conditions and a denial of time to
explore and study Our Father's works that causes "wanderlust" (which
is really a desire to escape an over-restrictive society), but also it
fosters what can be termed as a Parental Protection and Personal
Survival Syndrome, along with other elitist, worldly spirited
gravitation's in the TT's . This, for one reason, takes place because
of the lack of a growing population that would work to insure that the
needs of all are covered as the foundational members and others get
older and need care. The fear that comes upon those that can perceive
this causes a drift away from the "One heart and one mind" and "All
things in common" that the Church is supposed to be, and fosters a
favoritism towards family members of leaders for better skilled jobs
and positions of authority . It's the "natural heart, the flesh,
taking over from fear and it's causing what is inevitable when such an
awareness comes upon those in power; DIVISION! It's become quite clear
that there is an ever growing division in the Tribes as those in
leadership fall back on the "Me and mine first" spirit, and it
likewise, influences the leadership from tribe to tribe to do the
same. It's contagious! They know that if this "house of cards" falls,
that they will need a way to survive on the outside and the best way
to prepare for this emergency is to make sure that them and theirs
have the skills and managerial experiences to make a way to meet their
needs. So while the sleepy and unaware one, who is "out of the loop"
of the goings on up top, labors on with his kids doing the least
esteemed tasks, the little kings have their princes doing the more
skilled and favorable jobs with less stress so that they won't leave
like other youths have done from the incessant and immoderate work
system. Even worse, the ones that do see what's happening and have no
way to change it for fear of any outspokenness bringing reprisals
against themselves, and having nowhere to go or financial security to
exist outside the community, are stuck and living lives in a
prison-like solitude, fear, and quiet desperation. Paul said to let
your moderation be know among all men. It is intemperate to overdo
anything. It wears down the physical and mental constitution and
therefore affects the spiritual condition of the individual. An
intemperate man, an immoderate man, can never be a patient man.

nabashalam said...

There is another obvious spirit a great many of the leadership or in
those also with seniority. It is evidenced by the phrase "honor those
who have gone before you" as if they have arrived at some level that
brings them beyond accountability and also not subject to taking part
in the many menial tasks that most are engaged in. They stay nice and
tidy, out of sight most often, and emanate a distance in spirit from
what should be a genuine brotherly warmth towards others. These kings
fail to see the message of the humble Yahshua as he girded his loins
with the towel and washed the disciples feet; these feet that had
traversed amongst the streets that were laden with the dried remnants
of feces mixed in the dirt, of camel, donkey, chicken, and other
animal traffic of the towns. Yahshua came to serve and his actions
stood in stark contrast to the spirit of the diciples who were
concerned in a worldly spirit of who was to be highest and would sit
at Yahshua's right hand in the eternal kingdom. Human nature always
seeks the highest place, a place of dominance over others. But the
pyramidal system of the eternal kingdom is an inversion of the worldly
kingdoms of this earth. The point of the inverted pyramid is grounded
in our Father's spirit that serves like the growth of a trees nutrient
source, and services upward and outward to give life unto all as it
branches out in unselfish self sacrifice. This Spirit spreads up and
out from the broad spectrum of the levels of the eternal society and
returns in a cyclical pattern, a continuum, a perpetuity of life, love
and order. This is the reality of the "sweet smelling savor" of
sacrifice that is spoken about in the scriptures. It's all about
giving, never taking. The spirit of our Master showed a spirit of
servitude where he was not above doing the most menial of tasks, and
by this all would know and feel that he was one with them. This spirit
that was exemplified by Yahshua is the spirit that brings a closeness
throughout the Body. It is the spirit of unity that results from such
people that follow our Master's example. It is the spirit of all that
now exist in the eternal realm and will be the spirit of all who will
eventually dwell there. If the workload were a temperate and moderate
one, there would not be such an obvious schism and separate spirit
developing in the New Israel. This can be turned around if the
leadership would come together and confess and repent of the selfish
ways that have transpired. Until then. the peace and love and joy and
harmony that our Father so desires to see in his people will remain
only a dream and not the reality of co-laboring with him in a
community where his burden is light and his yoke is easy. We work with
him, but in moderation with a schedule that allows families and
singles to spend time exploring the innocent things of creation. These
things are engaged in after a moderate days work and before retiring
for the evening or whenever ones sleep schedule is. Innocent things
that those of the Communities can speak about as they labor together
and also share with others of like interest from outside the
community.

nabashalam said...

We do not have to engage in long hours of specific labor in order to
create a crucible to bring out the worst in us in order to see
ourselves or be seen to bring about correction. Our Father is not
short on His ability to orchestrate the correct mix at the right time,
of various personages along with their cultivated and inherited habits
in order to accomplish this necessity, within the sphere of
maintaining a moderate work schedule. There is no need to be
presumptuous about thinking that we, as leaders, are more able than
Him at this. Shall we have a continuum of older people deciding to not
come in to the Body because they can not fathom being able to
persevere under such a long incessant schedule, never mind bringing
their children into it? Shall we have a continuum of older folks, that
fortunately have the means and connections, leaving because they have
come to realise that the life that they're living, does not fit the
picture of the life that was proposed to them at the time they came
in? Shall we keep having a continuing "revolving door" of young
people, gleaned from the concerts and elsewhere, coming and going
after every few years of servitude, because they also, "figure it
out" ? And, if they had happened to marry and have children, they
either all leave and hopefully can make a way for themselves, or, as
all have seen, the family gets broken up with the "faithful" fearful
ones staying while the other spouse leaves which culminates with one
or the other fighting over the children. Does anybody not realize, or
even care, that there are those amongst the Tribes, who clearly see
the discrepancies between what was supposed to be and what is, that
are just "going along to get along" just to stay with their families
or because they have nowhere else to go? It's sad because a lot of
people who leave no longer want to have anything to do with God. It's
not too hard to reason that one could think "If this is the life that
is supposed to be the on earth as it is in heaven; more of this? Then,
I don't want any part of it". This can be remedied. Moderation in all
things is the key. Along with a little more trust that people can
still be in unity, yet have freedoms to choose innocent activities to
learn and to share from, and where thy could run across people to
converse with and share "the life" that our Father desires all to
have.

Everybody that wants their children to return, their friends to
return, and wants to see our Father grow this Body into what it is
supposed to be, say Amen. "For why will ye die, oh house of Israel"?

Anonymous, yet not without hope.

Anonymous said...

WOW! The Holy Spirit bore witness to this.

" It's not "wanderlust", but a God instilled innocent part of our being, a yearning to explore within the parameters of spiritual holy and healthy endevors towards the things of creation that testify of our Father's love. Things that he has given us the freedom of choice to learn of and share with others. He never would have given us this ability to see Him through His creation if He did not intend for us to avail ourselves of time to know Him and His provisional love through it. Each of us and our families need this time of perusal and reflection to enjoy our lives together. This is not divisive and disruptive of unity, but it is still unity of mind and Spirit to explore within the innocent and vast things that exist from our Father's hand for us to enjoy here on this earth. The garden had many trees to freely eat from. they were innocent choices that were approved by Him. There are to be many innocent choices for us in the eternal world too."


"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world..." Psalm 19:1-4

Who stands between the voice of our Father and His Children?

nabashalam said...

More words of truth from an anonymous soul...

"I know you are to humble yourself when someone says something against something which I hold as true but it does not mean we have to give up that belief because we are told that this is not our Fathers mind and a strange fire and if we don't we will be "cut off"."

I understand that this is one of the problems with coming in contact with the TT's. I perceived a spirit that is not of love when I present something that is not of their understanding. Instead of them being confident and conversing in gentleness and warmth about what they believe and taking you through the scriptures to show you the chain of verses that would prove their standing, there is instead, oftentimes, a distant coldness. They become visually distraught, although not overwhelmingly demonstrated, it is none the less perceptible. This type of reaction is usually demonstrated when one is not really sure of their belief, or when they don't know how to answer the question. Pride rises up in defense of their common belief, and rather than consider you an honest seeker looking to understand by biblical confirmation, you instead are perceived as an enemy. This is a common reaction from those who believe that heir "truths" are infallible and unalterable. Even though they may try to maintain an air of politeness, the attempt is thinly veiled. There is a big difference between politeness and love. There is an enormous difference between being habituated by repetition unto tolerance and politeness and true love. True love does not get distraught and uneasy when contrary circumstances arise. Just look at ICor 13 and see if the TT's fit the pattern.

1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

nabashalam said...

There is a providential reason that the Gospels which expose the life of Yahshua are in the front of the New Testament. It's so we can learn of Him first. And by beholding Him we are changed into the same image, more and more, step by step, by the Spirit of the lord 2Cor3:17,18.

If we do not take the time, personally, to study the life of Yahshua, then the Holy Spirit can't bring us to greater depths of understanding His mind so we can behold and assimilate the true Love. We will be held back from gaining the heart of our Father because He said "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father". This will enable us to see as through His eyes on how we look upon others in the world. We will become more conscientious of the overpowering and captivating enormity of sin, and it causes us to have great pity and compassion on those held in it, and an overwhelming desire to deliver them. It will also wake up in us a true recognition of our sinfulness (The heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked and who can possibly fathom the darkness of it Jer 17:9)) and the great love that our Father had in providing a sacrifice for us so that we could live. We will, as He did, love those captivated in evil as He does for us, "while we were yet sinners" He came to redeem us.

It is because I do not see this Spirit evidenced, not in just the greater body of TT believers, but in many of their leaders, that I am careful not to rush on in and join even though there are many wonderful truths present in their teachings. There are just too many red flags.

There is no substitute for the personal perusal of scripture, coupled with the Holy Spirit's assistance, in bringing one to the heavenly influences of being able to "see" our Father's heart and having it become part of us. The Tribes think to do this by the instruction of the brothers, but that method will never be able to do what the direct contact that one is invited by God to have through the Holy Spirit bringing us through the scriptures personally.

Do you think that the leadership of the Tribes keep the body so busy so that they will not have time to do a personal perusal of the scriptures? Do you think that they fear that many would discover the contradictions that a personal study would uncover?

All I know, and I have seen it in most every organization that I've viewed, is that the spirit of the leadership trickles down through the masses. If it's of a questionable nature, it's like the old Russian proverb that says "the fish rots from the head down" . If the masses exhibit a kind, gentle, patient , forbearing and understanding spirit, it's because it trickles down from the head.

Whether one is inside or outside of the body of believers, he should be treated with the right spirit no matter what question may be asked, and if he's afraid to ask questions because the reaction would be negative, then there is something definitely wrong. All questions should be welcomed and even encouraged, and kindly reasoned through the scriptures as Paul the apostle did with men. "For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind" 2Tim 1:7 "
-Anonymous

Anonymous said...

When you do not permit open discussion on beliefs, when you are not permitted to question authority as to things that are, or seem to be unclear or contradictory to scripture to you and when you are trained to just obey without being allowed to reason through the scriptures as Paul did with others (Acts 17:2, 18:4,19), something's wrong. When you have been treated as doing evil for being anyalytical, such as a noble scripture studying Berean, on things being taught by those in leadership, then you should wake up to the fact that there is something amiss. Paul was annointed by God to bring the light to the Gentiles, and Our Father, through the scriptures, commends those who went home and searched the scriptures daily to see whether the things that Paul taught were true ( Acts 17:11). This was put in as an example to all who would follow Yahshua. When one from within the body has been conditioned to not ask questions, lest they be considered as doing evil, then they treat those from outside their body as being evil to ask questions of what those inside believe if the teachings seem strange to them from what they had once been taught them to mean. When people become thin skinned when questioned it tends to demonstrate or suggest a lack of confidence in what they believe. It often causes them to have a spirit of paranoia and suspicion towards others who are just innocently seeking for answers so that they may be confident of the biblical standing on the things that the body follows. This spirit of paranoic suspicion and thin skinnedness is evidence of a lack of confidence; a fear. And, it is easily percieved by those outside of the body who innocently are only doing as God instructed; "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". And those of the body that are asked about their beliefs, should not become paranoid, thin skinned or suspicious towards those that ask, because Our Father says that they are to be ready to have an answer for those who ask of their beliefs: "be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear" 1Peter 3:15.
Continued:

Anonymous said...

Pt 2
If we become easily offended when someone makes an accusation towards us, or someone says something against something which I hold as true, then this is self at work; Self-Ish-Ness, which is sin. We sin against Love when we react negatively towards anyone. The reason that we react this way is because of pride and an element of fear because anything that questions our beliefs unsettles our security. This reaction is of the flesh, not the Spirit. The one that is truly connected to our Father's heart is the one that knows "Great peace have they that love thy law (His Way) and nothing shall offend them Psalm 119:165" for he lives in that reality. If we truly believe and trust God, then we will not stand up and face others with a retalitory spirit when opposed. "Vengeance is mine saith the Lord, I will repay". We are to humbly stand aside and let the verbal or even physical assaults go by us and land on Him. We are not to get in the middle of it. It is Yahshua's battle, not ours. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" Eph 6:12. He said "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me". When somebody does something towards us, it falls on Him. When we do something on another, it also falls on Him. That's why David said "Against thee only have I sinned" in Psalm 51:4. We are to always treat those that oppose us with gentleness and kindness because we care for their recovery and so that the spirit that falls on our Father from our actions is a spirit of love and not evil.. We can not rescue anybody from the evil one's grasp by anger or hatred. To have such a spirit is to then fall into the trap where now Satan has us both; the offender and the offendee. When we retaliate, whether physically or verbally, or even at the level of a thought, we push our Savior aside and usurp His authority and we refuse to be humble and follow our Savior's example of how He instructed us and gave example to us to act when we are confronted, abused and opposed. We are to return love and kindness to those who we might think oppose us. We are instructed to return good for evil.
Continued:

Anonymous said...

Just because we're in a group at a certain location does not insure our holiness, our rightousness unto salvation, which quarantees eternal life.We must be of the Spirit on an individual basis,on a daily basis. There will be many who decieve themselves into thinking that, because they are in the Body, they are saved as long as they remain amongst the group. There is a Body of believers, but they are those amongst the group only, who daily and continually strive against self, while asking for and laying hold of our Father's grace. They keep the flesh under subjection (1Cor 9:27). Only those who are walking after the Spirit, not the flesh, are safe. Do you not think that there are those amongst the Body that walk in the flesh?[ When Yahshua said that the wheat grows along with the tares, he was not talking about the worldly society, he was speaking about those who profess/claim his name; those who live amonst the others in the Body. This applies not only to the general population of members, but to the leadership also. The admonition "My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we will recieve the greater condemnation" (James 3:1), is a stern warning to those who would ponder to accept a position of authority. If you think that you are not ready or if there is someone else that is more qualified, then yield to them and decline the position for the betterment of the Body and the honor of our Father. Inheritance alone also is no assurance that one is qualified for filling roles of leadership. Shall we forget the lessons of Aaron's sons, Nadab, and AbIhu and their fatal indiscretions, or Eli's sons Hophni and Phinehas? No person is above the law or beyond reproach. Remember how David sought to hide his sin from exposure by killing Uriah? Our Father exposes the sins of Israel's leaders to humble them and His Body. And although He is merciful and is willing to forgive, the sin always comes with a cost. These things are written in the record for both our warning and also our hope. The failings of those are displayed for us to see, along with the mercies of God, so that if we are overtaken,we will not fall into utter despair, but can take heart again and right ourselves back into His graces. It's the worldly governments and the apostate churches ways that engage in cronyism and nepotism. It is also the world's governments, businesses and fallen churches that do "damage control" to hide scandals and iniquities of the ruling bodies. Our Father does not work like that, and neither does He condone such actions of those who claim to be His people. In Him "is no variableness nor shadow of turning", and neither will there be in His people. Those who are truly humble will put the cares of our Father's Body first with a true clarity and integrity that needs not to be repented of. "Let all things be done decently and in order" (1Cor 14:40).

nabashalam said...

"The Heavens Declare The Glory Of God..."
Yoneq is going to have to adjust his teaching on Revelation 12 and the
Woman with 12 stars above her head, clothed with the sun, and the moon
under her feet.

http://www.youtube.com/user/forty5cal1911#p/c/111C3AD89BC5E679

nabashalam said...

This will send shivers up your back!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rFWQIyvcH4&feature=related

nabashalam said...

and keep watching!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxUGBf5tioU&feature=related

nabashalam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
nabashalam said...

I cannot stop! I am watching and listening to these videos and it is making me cry!

THIS IS THE TRUTH!!! IT IS WRITTEN IN THE SKIES! WHO ELSE COULD WRITE THE STORY AND POETRY OF OUR SALVATION AND HIS LOVE FOR US IN THE COSMOS???

Part 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmygjSM6Snk&feature=related

Part 8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjEV3YJU8TM&feature=related

Follow up discussion...

http://www.youtube.com/user/forty5cal1911#p/c/111C3AD89BC5E679/8/1AwKWAHR2KA

http://www.youtube.com/user/forty5cal1911#p/c/111C3AD89BC5E679/9/6qmqU2bUpqY

Anonymous said...

Frequently Asked Questions

Do these events recur?


The universe and our Solar System are governed by mathematical laws which we have understood since the early 1600's. That is when Kepler puzzled out the Three Laws of Planetary Motion and Newton refined them. We now know that the Solar System moves with amazing regularity, like a great clock. For this reason, much of what we see overhead is quite predictable. The Sun always rises, after all. But this does not mean that the events of the Star, while mathematically predictable, will all come together again and again.


Christ's Star, described in the Book of Matthew, correlates precisely with celestial events we know occurred in 2 and 3 B.C. But the story of the Star is a series of events, and this affects statistical probabilities. Any one of the events might well recur -- some more frequently, but some only once in hundreds of years. When we stack all of the events together, the probability of them all recurring in the right order to match events of 2 and 3 B.C. drops to near zero. Apart from the Star, this complete series of events has never happened while man has observed. They will not stack up this way again in any span of time meaningful to us. What might happen in 10,000 years or a million has little bearing on us.


But, most important, these celestial events correlate with events here on Earth. This is the real point. This improbable series of events in the sky correlates perfectly with the birth and death of a man who claimed to be the Messiah, Savior of the Human Race. The probability of this recurring is nil.

Is any of this really new?

Yes, which is why this story matters. Knowledge often advances in increments. But it may also advance in leaps of insight. Both are happening here. The facts, of course, are two thousand years old. But the story is now coming into fresh and startling focus.


Any researcher will tell you he stands on the shoulders of those who came before. The Star story is built upon the work of Kepler, Newton, Sinnott, Hoehner, Finegan, Martin, Humphreys, Waddington and numerous others. Their discoveries are all the more remarkable when seen together, as a whole. A new and more complete story of the Star takes shape.


Beyond piecing together clues found by others, this project and DVD are built upon a leap of insight which is entirely new: that the Star of Bethlehem is part of a celestial poem that begins at Christ's conception and birth, but concludes with great drama on the day of the Cross. It is this entirely new insight that makes the story emotionally and intellectually compelling.
http://www.bethlehemstar.net/faq.htm

Anonymous said...

Does the timeline of the Star conflict with the Sign of Jonah?


No, it does not. But let's put the issue in sharp focus.


Jesus said:

"An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Matthew 12.39,40 ESV).


The timeline of the Star follows conventional understanding, that Jesus was killed on a Friday and rose from the dead the following Sunday. How can that be "three days and three nights" in the earth?


This question arises from a difference between our modern culture and Christ's ancient one. Jesus was certainly a most unusual person, but he was still a flesh-and-blood man born into a mid-Eastern culture of two thousand years ago. He was born Jewish, and he lived, thought and spoke in forms rooted in his time, place and culture. This is why so much of his teaching incorporates events common to the experience of the people living around him -- he spoke appropriately to his audience.


In the Jewish idiom of Christ's day and earlier, the phrase a "day and a night" could be used to refer to any portion of what we moderns think of as a 24-hour day. Examples of this are found in both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible.


Consider Esther's predicament, recorded in the Old Testament. Her Jewish people were living under the rule of a powerful foreign king. Through court intrigue, the king was persuaded to annihilate all Jews in his kingdom. Esther was in the king's harem and had won his favor, but, he did not realize she was of Jewish descent. As a harem girl, she was forbidden to approach him unless called. But now her people were to be slaughtered. Knowing she could be killed, she decided to approach the king and plead for the Jews. Before going, she wanted the spiritual support of her people. She asked her adopted father:

"Go, gather all the Jews to be found..., and hold a fast on my behalf, and do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my young women will also fast as you do. Then I will go to the king, though it is against the law, and if I perish, I perish." (Esther 4.16, ESV)


We see that she used the phrase "three days, night or day." The story continues:

On the third day Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the king's palace, in front of the king's quarters, while the king was sitting on his royal throne inside the throne room opposite the entrance to the palace. (Esther 5.1, ESV)


She had asked others and also committed herself to fast for three days. But she did not fast for 72 hours, as we moderns would reckon. Instead, she went before the king on the third day. She considered some portion of the third day as a "day," illustrating the Jewish idiom. (The story ends well for Esther and the Jews).


There are other Old Testament examples of this, but let's fast forward to the New Testament. Did Jesus use this idiom? Yes he did. As we've seen, he spoke of being in the earth for three days and three nights. Yet, he also speaks to his disciples:

As they were gathering in Galilee, Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is about to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him, and he will be raised on the third day." And they were greatly distressed. (Matthew 17.22,23, ESV)


Jesus tells them he will be raised on the third day, not the fourth. He is counting a portion of a modern 24-hour day as a "day." When we are aware of cultural differences, problems understanding the Bible often disappear.

Anonymous said...

The birth of Jesus was announced to shepherds in the fields with their flocks. Does this fix the announcement to a certain season of the year?


Not really. In the Mediterranean mid-East, flocks might be found at pasture almost any time of year, weather permitting. The chronology of the Star may imply that Jesus was born in September or June. Either is consistent with flocks being in the field. In September, the average daytime high in Bethlehem is in the mid-80's, Fahrenheit. Lows are in the mid-60's in the wee hours of the morning. It is normal to run flocks in these temperatures. Of course, June is warmer. Even in the dead of Winter and at 2,550 feet elevation, it rarely freezes in Bethlehem.

Wasn't Jesus 33 when he died?


If Jesus was born in June of 2 B.C., the Star chronology does fit this traditional understanding, as there is no year 0 A.D.. But nothing in the Bible compels the conclusion that Jesus died at age 33. That age is a traditional one many of us have heard over the years, much as we have seen nativity scenes and Christmas plays which include the Magi visiting Christ's natal manger. In reality, the Magi did not visit Jesus while he was in the manger, and Christ may not have been 33 when he died. (According to the Bible, the Magi visited Jesus when he was a toddler living in a house).


The origin of the 33-year-old tradition is probably a loose reading of Luke's gospel account. Luke was a Greek physician and an absolute stickler for accuracy. Luke has astonished many a critical analyst when his descriptions of events and titles of governmental rulers, though unexpected, proved precisely correct. Luke tells us that Jesus began his ministry when he was "approximately" 30 years of age. This, plus the three annual Passovers recorded by John in his gospel has probably resulted in the assumption that Jesus died aged 33. But Luke never said Jesus was aged 30 when he began his ministry. The assumption that Jesus was aged 30 is only that, an assumption, and one which Luke used care not to adopt.

Can astronomy software be used to view the skies of the future? Can we see astronomical signs of Christ's return?


The Laws of Planetary Motion apply equally to ancient, current and future skies. So, it is possible to predict events in future skies with precision. This does not mean that we can predict the day of Christ's return using astronomy. Christ himself said he did not know the precise time of his return; only the Father knows that time. But we can know the "season" of his return, and astronomy might disclose markers of that season.


At present, the Star Project does not include teaching about future events. But that could change. And, there is nothing to prevent you from conducting your own investigations using astronomy software and clues from the Bible.

Can the existence of God be proved?


Yes, if we can agree on what constitutes evidence. Reaching a shared understanding of what constitutes evidence is a critical first step. But no one can be forced to believe anything they do not choose to believe.


Some people feel that if the Bible provides data about an event, such as the Star, and that data is shown to be accurate, this constitutes evidence of the Bible's accuracy. Other people start with a conviction that the Bible is not accurate, and they will not accept anything as evidence of its accuracy. Some people believe that Elvis Presley is not dead. Others believe that the Holocaust did not occur. They will not accept anything as evidence which contradicts their views. Not even photographs.


If one adopts standards of evidence and proof comparable to those used in daily life, the existence of God is obvious to most people. That is why virtually the entire human race believes that God exists. The existence of God is denied primarily by people who have trained themselves to dismiss common lines of evidence.

http://www.bethlehemstar.net/faq.htm

Anonymous said...

Some believe that Christ died on a day other than Friday. Can the star signs be reconciled with these points of view?


Strong minds have considered Christ's Friday death. While there is good agreement on the point, there are also strong minority opinions. These minority opinions are usually based upon the Sign of Jonah, the Jewish festival calendar and/or the High Sabbath. Some contend that Christ died on Wednesday. Others are persuaded he died on Thursday. These points of view are based upon earnest analysis from a single angle and are not to be dismissed lightly.


However, what happened in the sky cannot be adjusted to accommodate argument or theological reasoning. Events in the sky are simple facts. They cannot be bumped a day or two. The lunar eclipse mentioned by Joel and Peter did not happen on Wednesday or Thursday. It happened on Friday.


An obvious solution to this conflict is to ignore the celestial events in favor of one's preferred analysis. The other solution is to reanalyze one's position to include what happened in the sky.


Here are two excellent, balanced resources for those who wish to explore the day of the week of Christ's death in more depth:

The Handbook of Biblical Chronology, Jack Finegan (Revised Edition; Peabody, Mass.: Hendrickson Publishers, 1998) ISBN 1-56563-143-9.

Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ, Harold W. Hoehner (Grand Rapids: Academie Books, 1977) ISBN 0-310-26211-9.

What caused the darkness at noon on the Day of the Cross?


The darkness was not an ordinary solar eclipse. A solar eclipse cannot occur on the day of a lunar eclipse, as the Sun and Moon are on opposite 'sides' of the Earth. A lunar eclipse is Earth's shadow, seen on the Moon.


Here are some interesting clues which support plate tectonics as the cause of the darkness at noon.

* Israel is in an active sheering subduction zone.
* There was tectonic activity on the Day of the Cross, that is, an earthquake strong enough to break up boulders.
* The Levant is studded with volcanoes (Israel's Golan Heights is a string of extinct volcanoes).
* Joel predicted something like billowing clouds of smoke, which Peter told a hostile crowd on the day of Pentecost: "You've seen!"
* Particulate matter suspended in the atmosphere (an aerosol) tends to create red-colored lunar eclipses (blood moons), which Peter also asserted his audience had seen.

So, one possible explanation of the darkness is a plume of volcanic ash, which would be consistent with these factual clues. However, until we can develop historical evidence of a candidate eruption, volcanism remains an interesting hypothesis which is not ready for prime time.
http://www.bethlehemstar.net/faq.htm

Anonymous said...

How could a planet or star lead the Magi to a specific house?


Objects at astronomical distances cannot literally point at or selectively illuminate a specific house. However, the idea that the Star pointed the Magi to a specific house is not in the Bible. It is an idea which has been added to the Biblical narrative.

How could the Magi see Virgo when she is clothed in the Sun?


Constellations are not visible during daylight hours. However, because the movements of celestial objects are regular, students of the stars can know where objects are positioned, even during daylight hours. The new moon was just visible.

Do the stars indicate the end or transformation of the world in 2012?


There is speculation on the web and throughout popular culture that the year 2012 will be of special significance. This is based primarily upon the Mesoamerican Long Count Calendar, which is interpreted to terminate in December of 2012. Several other lines of speculation and fanciful argument also converge on 2012.


From an astronomical perspective, on December 21, 2012 the Winter Solstice will occur where the path of the Sun (the Ecliptic) crosses the equator of the Milky Way (the Galatic Equator). Of course, the paths of the Ecliptic and Galactic Equator always cross, and the Winter Solstice often occurs near that crossing. It is difficult to see much objective significance in this, but it does fuel the imagination of many.

Erratum


On the Star DVD, it is stated that Daniel never returned home. This is incorrect (and extraneous to the point). Cf. Ezra 8:2. The point is that Daniel was a chief Magus under Nebuchadnezzer and that his high position, plus the presence of the Jewish diaspora in Babylon, created a locus of Jewish belief in the East which may have influenced the Magi.

http://www.bethlehemstar.net/faq.htm

From Home: http://www.bethlehemstar.net/

nabashalam said...

You go Annie!

(standing on my chair)

Woo Hoo!

nabashalam said...

I'd appreciate any comments you'd care to leave here...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jan/18/north-county-group-disputes-cult-depiction/

nabashalam said...

"The rise of "Yoneq" and the hardening of the new wineskin..."

Every word that was written here is of optimal importance for anybody that is thinking of joining or has left, to read.

I posted this 5 years ago while I was at Bob Pardons place http://meadowhaven.org/
for those exiting cults... and the words still ring true, maybe even truer today...



http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/6119.html


quote from the above letter:

"Grace happens in spite of the legalism
of the leadership. But grace doesn't stop because
you left TT. You can't bottle up grace. It is there
because it's in your hearts. The "law" says grace is
a part of a specific physical community, a specific
locality, a certain leadership. . . the spirit of
God's grace goes where there is love: where there is
being practiced the simple, but profound ethical
principles found in The Sermon On The Mount.
Spiritual authorities who base their authority
on some system of "law", are disturbed by an attitude
of grace. The leaders of the law want to make the
false claim that they somehow own grace, have the only
legal spiritual franchise on it. . .that they alone
get the chance to dispense it to whom they choose;
but, as the old blues song says: "it ain't
necessarily so!"
While writing all this, it looks like Gene
eventually became the same type of Christian minister
that he grew up under in the small Alliance church his
family attended in Chattanooga, Tennessee:
controlling, legalistic, overly-critical, preacher who
does everything he can to maintain his control over
his little flock. And I doubt that Gene can even see
it. I'm sure in his own mind, he is still fighting
for God. I think he has been so busy for the past 30
years building this organization that perhaps he
hasn't had time to sit down and reflect about what he
is doing and why he is doing it.
So, enjoy your chopsticks. . . but it's OK to eat w/
spoons, forks or even with your hands. Just give
thanks for what you do have. It's all God's good gifts
of grace."

nabashalam said...

our chance to tell our story has come...

I have been contacted by the Biography Channel (ie A&E and the History Channel) Steve Hassan referred them to me when they came looking to him.
http://www.freedomofmind.com/

http://www.biography.com/isurvived/

I will be looking for male ex-members who are willing to tell their story in front of a camera. Now your story must tell of the abuse you suffered and anything else that you survived there. Like lack of medical, overworked in dangerous conditions and poorly fed, sent away and ripped from your family etc. Not to mention the mental and emotional abuse.

I also want to get a few youths that were sent away or left and have been shunned by their own family due to direction and pressure put upon them.

This is our chance guys! To get our story out!

I will post the letter that the Biography Channel researcher sent me soon... I just want to get some ground rules set with him first.

Also if you know of someone who would be good for this and is willing, have them contact me.

This is sooo great!

We are talking literally millions of people around the world here...

Contact me at if you would like to know more... nabashalam@yahoo.com

Anonymous said...

Anybody that would borrow on credit to further the work rather than working until you have the cash fulfill your plans. Borrowing on credit is gambling. It also is worse than "riding the back of the beast". It is the beast riding on your back and controlling you. Why would anybody that proclaims to be walking in the Spirit intertwine himself in the system that the evil one controls? Where in the early church do you see the practice of borrowing and mortgaging? You'd better liquidate and consolidate, pay off your debts and start the right way.

nabashalam said...

A blog of a recent departee...

This is good stuff! Check it out!


http://graced-all-over.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

THEY TURNED THE WORLD UPSIDE DOWN

Acts 17:5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

Acts 17:6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also.

"Turned the world upside down". These are no small words because the way of the social structure of the world is like a pyramid. The pyramids of Egypt, a pagan culture, and others discovered amongst the many cultures of the world represented such structures of society. These were designed by the evil one. Our Father's Kingdom is not of the same exact order. The kings of the world lord over the masses from pompous, affluent and lofty social heights. Our Father's leaders are servants, not kings and princes that mirror the authority levels of worlds pyramidal structures. As Yahshua showed when he washed the disciples feet and Paul showed when he worked with his hands making tents, they were not of the world's way. They were not above involving themselves in labors that were usually performed by the lower classes, by this they would be felt and known that they were one with all men. By this they would show that spirit of laying down their lives for each other in direct opposition to how the worldly leaders lived. They sympathized with those who carried the most intense burdens in society, those who sweated at the brow in their daily labor and turmoil for little recompense.

Human nature, the natural heart, always seeks for the path of least resistance and also the highest place so that they may esteem themselves better than other men and seek for themselves more leisure and better accompaniments and privileges which comes at the expense of the more intense labors of others. This is the way of the covetous heart; the way of the flesh, not the Spirit.

Continued:

Anonymous said...

Continued:
Our Father's "way" is the opposite of the world's way. It is an inversion of the pyramidal social structure of the world. our Father lives only to give and serve, and He carries the greater burden of sustaining and orchestrating all that exists. His chosen leaders will be of the same Spirit. On each level of the inverted structure, the leaders live to give and share in the performance of the society. They jump in and help even of the most menial tasks. They take their turn at the labor, as both Yahshua and Paul did. They didn't sit around watching others work. They wouldn't sit around in their chairs while at the computer glancing out the window now and then, gazing at the laborers in the field. They'd be working along side sharing eternal themes. They wouldn't let someone who labored in the hot sun all day also have to milk the goats and cows too, when hands are few. They would take the initiative to do it themselves.

When we understand what was meant when it was stated that "they turned the world upside down" then we will begin to understand the order of the self-sacrificing eternal society that is in existence right now, and that we are being invited to join. Yahshua is the tip of this inverted pyramid, and he is bearing the greater burden of the successive layers. He rests in our Father's Spirit, as God is a Spirit, but he is also of systematic order. Nothing can exist without order. Love can not exist without order. The two can not be separated. In the pyramidal order of our Father, as Yahshua draws on His Spirit, it flows up and out through the successive levels of His order, through his burden bearing kinsmen, and expands throughout the masses of beings that make up His eternal Body like a fountain,and then returning back to Him. The Spirit of our Father is orderly, intelligent and cyclic. (The heavenly spheres and their appointed, unending and orderly orbits testify of this. "The heavens declare the glory of God...")This "way" perpetuates life. It is the mindset of His self-sacrificing beings that contain His self-same Spirit, which is the "sweet smelling savor" spoken of in the scriptures. This is the "way" which the evil one rebelled against. His spirit of rebellion is what you see in the opposite pyramidal structures of the world's societies. These societies are always at variance with each other, and eventually seek to war and destroy each other. The world's societies are an ongoing testimony to the unfallen heavenly beings that Our Father's "way" was and is the only way that life can survive. It's a testimony that His order was and is not of a selfish worldly type kingship, but a design of a self-sacrificing system of love where each member lives for the existence of each other in infinite harmony.

Leaders that fail to understand these truths are in danger of the worldly spirit of pride and haughtiness and set themselves and their offspring as kings and princes lording over others rather than serving; thus destroying "The Life". "Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall" Proverbs 16:18.

nabashalam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
nabashalam said...

Were the TTs right violated at Red Rocks?

You tell me...

href="http://www.csindy.com/colorado/tribal-conflict/Content?oid=1141921">

nabashalam said...

Who should you listen too now a days?

"Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness."

-2 Tim 2


"If you extract the precious from the worthless, You will become My spokesman."
-Jeremiah 15

The following is a letter a friend of mine wrote that I wanted to pass along. Keep in mind that I have MANY "Anonymous" friends and there is no sense in trying to figure out which person this is. The words stand for themselves and the original author may or may not be a person or a "Spirit" speaking through this person. Always keep in mind that words may mean and convey different things to different people at different times.


The true fruit of the Spirit.

2Cor. 3:18 And all of us, as with unveiled face, [because we]
continued to behold [in the Word of God] as in a mirror the glory of
the Lord, are constantly being transfigured into His very own image in
ever increasing splendor and from one degree of glory to another; [for
this comes] from the Lord [Who is] the Spirit.
We do not come to the level of bearing the fruits of Godly character
by exerting an effort because of fear of punishment. That would only
cause a false fruit bearing. We become the genuine article, which we
were originally created to be, by beholding Yahshua through the agency
of the Holy Spirit. We follow the true shepherd and assimilate the
traits of his character as we daily meditate on his dealings with his
fellow men as revealed to us in scripture. “I have loved the with an
everlasting love, therefore with loving kindness have I drawn thee”
Jer. 31:3
Bearing true fruit is not something we can be forced to do. It’s not
something that is conjured up due to peer pressure , humiliation and
guilt, but by the Holy Spirit enabling us to behold Yahshua.

nabashalam said...

As we
peruse the events of his life the Holy Spirit brings up evermore into
deeper draughts of the loveliness of his character. Fruits grow from
within. They are not something we hang on. They are matured to
greater levels and evidenced outwardly by beholding Yahshua through
the Holy Spirit. We can not become so busy that we rob ourselves of
the time our master wants us to take to do this. Sometimes we have to
slow down to catch up.
We have to realize that we do not grow by fear and guilt or threats of
being “cut off”. True fruits of righteousness can only come by
beholding him through the work of the Holy Spirit. That is what our
Father is saying in 2Cor 3:18. As we read of Yahshua in the gospels
the Spirit brings us into deeper understanding of his character, his
love. The Spirit shows us how he interacted with all of sinful
humanity, and by beholding we reach greater levels of understanding of
God and man and the compassion for those who would even seek to do us
harm. We learn by Yahshua’s ways that only by love is love awakened in
the hearts of men who are held under the sway of the evil one’s power.
If we become too busy to set apart a time to behold him we can never
come to the place he desires to bring us in character, fruit bearing.
We need to avail ourselves of this precious time or suffer a
retardation of growth. Again, “sometimes we have to slow down to catch
up”. Putting on outward fruit, a false facade, is not true loveliness.
The true fruit wells up from within by a continual beholding of
Yahshua as the Holy Spirit impresses his “way” upon our hearts. Any
undertaking to control the hearts of men other than this “way” is the
work of the false shepherd. If they tell you to behold them rather
than Him, they are of another spirit, not the Holy Spirit. The Holy
Spirit comes to you by himself to instruct and is not to be replaced
by the peer pressure of faulty men. “ Thus saith the LORD; Cursed [be]
the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose
heart departeth from the LORD” Jer. 17:5. It is by a one on one
personal relationship that we are enabled to “behold him’ and become
changed to one who bears the true fruit.
There will be a group of people saved, but we are not saved just
because we join a particular group. This is not to say that there is
not a particular group.There may be many in the group that are His,
but without a personal relationship to him where we are drawn by his
love revealed to us by the Holy Spirit through the scriptures which
constrains us (propels us forward) to turn away from the promptings
and impulses of the fleshly nature and follow him, then although we
are in the midst of many, we are not his. This personal relationship
will always result in willing obedience; a faith that works in
recognition of His love.

-Anonymous

nabashalam said...

More from -Anonymous.. "Ye shall find rest unto your souls"


"Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will
give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek
and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my
yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light". Matt. 11:28-30

The Old Testament does specifically say that the "seventh day is the
Sabbath." (Exodus 20:10) It was given to Israel at least two weeks
before Sinai at the giving of the manna. (Exodus 16:23-29)

For any Twelve Tribers who might be curious, I'd like to add that the
Sabbath was the sign of the covenant made only between Israel and God
(Exodus 31:13); was given, along with the rest of the law, 430 years
after Abraham (Galatians 3:17); was part of the Old Covenant
(specifically spelled out in Deuteronomy 4:13; Deuteronomy 5); and
which became obsolete when Yahshua brought in the New Covenant
(Hebrews 8:13). All the various kinds of Sabbaths are shadows of
Yahshua (Colossians 2:16,17) and he is now our Rest. He says to come
to Him and He will give you rest (Matthew 11:28).
“The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between
his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the
people be” Gen 49:10.
Shiloh: Strongs 7886 “tranquil”
Joshua couldn’t give Israel that rest. Yahshua began it in his coming
and we rest with him through grace and the indwelling of the Holy
Spirit now as we sit with him in heavenly places (Eph.2:6) free from
the condemnation of the law (Rom. 8:1,2). We are not under the law
while we grow in grace, in obedience, from glory to glory (2Cor.
3:18), but there remains a future rest to enter fully into.
Shiloh has come, and with him the end of the OT Sabbath laws and other
ordinances such as circumcision, unclean people and food.
“Let no man judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of a holy day
(yearly Sabbaths), or of the new moon (monthly Sabbaths) or of the
Sabbath days (Weekly Sabbaths)”. Col 2:16
“Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him
which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he
standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to
make him stand.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day
[alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that
regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that
eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that
eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks”. Rom.
14:3-6

nabashalam said...

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Yahshua, that [there is] nothing
unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean,
to him [it is] unclean. Rom 14:14
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and
peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. Rom. 14:17
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added (when? At Sinai) because
of transgressions, till the seed (The seed of David, Yahshua) should
come to whom the promise was made” Gal 3:19
The law remains to those who have not come to Yahshua as a
schoolmaster to convict them of their unrighteousness, sin.
But the righteous are not under the letter of the law. The righteous
are those who believe and follow the NC commandments of Yahshua.
“Now the end of the commandment is charity (love) out of a pure heart,
and [of] a good conscience, and [of] faith unfeigned: From which some
having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; desiring to be
teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof
they affirm. But we know that the law [is] good, if a man use it
lawfully; (correctly, as a schoolmaster to convict the unbelievers yet
in sin) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,
but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners,
for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of
mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile
themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured
persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound
doctrine; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which
was committed to my trust”. 1Tim 1:5-11.

nabashalam said...

“But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the
faith which should afterwards be revealed. The law was our
schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Yahshua, that we might be justified by
faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a
schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in the
anointed Yahshua. For as many of you as have been baptized into
Yahshua have put on the annointing. There is neither Jew nor Greek,
there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for
ye are all one in Yahshua the annointed. And if ye [be] Yahshua’s,
then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise”. Gal.
3:23-29.

Everyone who doesn't understand that Yahshua is now our rest is
setting themselves up to be decieved by a works-oriented religion.
Yes, nine of the ten commandments are repeated in the new, but we're
not saved by keeping any of the OC laws. We now live under the NC Law
of Yahshua (1Cor 9:21) that he gave by revelation to Paul and the
Apostles (Acts 1:2 Gal 1:12). The Holy Spirit indwells believers in
the new covenant [New Testament] (2 Corinthians 3:7,8).
Paul told the believers in the letter to the Hebrews to not forsake
the assembling of themselves together. Heb 10;25. Why, if they were
still regarding the seventh day Sabbath as a holy day of convocation,
would he have to say such a thing? Because Shiloh had come and the
rest was made for man, not man for the rest. Yahshua was now the rest
24/7, but through Paul he wanted to make sure that the believers came
together on a regular basis. That’s why the early church began to keep
first day. It was a day where commerce was less demanding so men of
both Jewish and Gentile roots could come together. In this way the ire
of the Jewish nation that refused Messiah’s coming would not be
stirred up, and the Gentile would be more inclined to listen to the
Gospel message.
However, Paul taught a principle that we should hold in high regard.
He said “For though I be free from all [men], yet have I made myself
servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I
became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under
the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the
law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without
law to God, but under the law to Yahshua,) that I might gain them that
are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the
weak: I am made all things to all [men], that I might by all means
save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be
partaker thereof with [you]” 1Cor 9: 19-23
Paul taught that there was no longer any cultural barriers for the NC
church and that they were no longer under the letter of the law, as he
was weaning the Jews off of it, as he also brought the Gentiles into
the fold.
“In that he saith, a new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now
that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away”. Paul
said this to the Jews in his letter of Hebrews 8:13.
“Before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith
which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our
schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Yahshua, that we might be justified by
faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a
schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in the
anointed Yahshua. For as many of you as have been baptized into
Yahshua have put on the annointing. There is neither Jew nor Greek,
there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for
ye are all one in the anointed Yahshua. And if ye [be] Yahshua’s,
then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal 3:
23-29

nabashalam said...

“ But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead therein we
were held; that we should serve in newness of Spirit: for the letter
killeth, but the Spirit giveth life”. Rom 7:6
“For if they which be of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the
promise made is of none effect”. Rom 14:4
“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Yahshua”. John 1:17
We are now under the warnings , counsels and admonitions given by the
anointing of Yahshua to the Apostles which are recorded in the New
Testament scriptures.
So, does all of this negate the establishment of the TwelveTribes of
the New Israel? Absolutely not! But, there does need to be a paradigm
shift if it is to survive.
Paul counseled that the Lord showed him that there was nothing
unclean of itself.Rom 14:14, and why he could state in 1 Cor. 10 “ all
things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient; all things
are lawful, but all things edify not’ “Whatever is sold in the
shambles eat asking no question for conscience sake for the earth is
the Lord’s and everything in it. If any non-believers bid you to a
feast, and you be disposed to go; whatever is set before you, eat,
asking no question for conscience sake. But if any man say to you,
This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat it not for his sake that
showed it to you….Conscience, I say, not yours but the other guys: for
why is my liberty to indulge judged by anothers beliefs; conscience?
For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I spoken evil of for that
which I give thanks? Whether ye eat or drink or whatsoever you do, do
all to the glory of God. Give none offence neither to the Jews, nor to
the Gentiles nor to the church of God. Even as I please all men in
all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of many, that
they may be saved”.
They, unclean things, were designated as such so that men would have a
physical practice of staying away from something in order to teach
them that there was a spiritual application. Disobedience of physical
things related to disobedience in the spiritual sense thereby teaching
man of sin. They were given so for lessons. They were types. There
was nothing unclean before the fall. After Yahshua fulfilled the law
he showed Peter in the vision of the unclean animals mingled with the
clean (all manner of beasts) in the sheet he let down in Acts chapter
10. This vision was done “thrice” where “the vessel was received up
again into heaven”. Would God bring anything unclean into heaven?
So, by the same token, whereas Paul counseled not to eat in offence,
we would become a stumblingblock to the Jew if we were to eat anything
offensive in front of him causing him not to hear the Gospel. We
sacrifice our liberty so that the Jew will hear to be grafted back
into the vine. We also would be wise to follow Paul in “being all
things to all men” and assemble together on the seventh day, but not
by the OC legal standards, so that the lost house of Israel will come
in. Circumcision would be of the same also.
This is what the Twelve Tribes do now in action, but they have to know
and practice that it is done in liberty and not legalistically. That’s
the shift they need to make for starters. If they choose to work on
the seventh day, they break no commandment, but our Father does want
us to take a day of rest to rejuvenate the mind and body. The rest was
made for man. Therefore if you come amongst the Gentile you are free
to eat whatever for the sake of the opening up to him the Gospel and
you are wise to assemble on the seventh day in order to gain the ear
of the Jew. And circumcision? That’s been proven to be a healthy
practice anyhow , so do it for Israel’s sake, but not because it is
still a requirement of the OT law.

nabashalam said...

Another thing The TT’s have to learn is moderation in all things. That
includes work schedules. What good is it to put Israel under the
incessant workload that Egypt once laid on their backs. There is no
family time. No time to explore the innocent things of creation to
hear our Father’s message of love through them. Our Father is more
than capable of orchestrating the weaving of circumstances and
personalities about us as trials for our shaping and conditioning to
his own designs while we work within a moderate schedule. He doesn’t
need us to fabricate trials for others in order to purge them of their
baser habits. Purposely wearing down peoples mental and physical
constitutions in order to dull their thinking and brainwash them by
repetitious phrases and stress and duress, or work the worst out of
them works for the Marines, but there’s not a lot of love there.
What’s to look forward to for the long work sparse rest program, the
next meal? It’s become quite noticeable that a few of the elects
leaders have become a bit pudgy contrary to the teaching, even obese.
Maybe the freedom to take in some evening walks would help; if the
Tribal leaders could come about to trusting the people who gave up
everything to live for each other and build the Kingdom.

nabashalam said...

OMG! the Twelve Tribes has a twin sister
in Australia!
Don't ever think the Tribes are unique. Here's a group that is a cookie cutter
version of the TT. They may dress normal and have haircuts but it is
still a den of wolves...

Read this article and tell me they
are not under the same "God Spell" and deluding spirit...

FACTNet

nabashalam said...

I am passing this along for a friend...

Dear anonymous normal teenager,
I believe in freedom. If you want to give yourself a heart attack eating junk food and being angry that's your liberty and probably won't change until the great awakener, pain, stops you. Government's job is not to be your parent but protect unalienable rights. Government drug laws are unconstitutional because they interfere with your unalienable right to liberty and property. Your liberty to use drugs as long as you don't infringe on someone else's liberty and the drugs, your property. Of course kids see the hypocrisy of the system, some rebel, some conform. Either way an outside force is pushing your buttons.
Life, liberty and property gotten without stealing are unalienable rights because they are not given by man and man has no right to take them from you.

What you may not know is you were forced into rebelling or conforming much younger than when you saw their hypocrisy. As a child you learned at an amazing pace to walk, talk, respond to your world. No one taught you. You learned because you were curious. You had an inner sense. You remembered things that had meaning to you as you were ready. Then you went to school (the usual scenario but there are many different ones with the same result) and were pressured to learn things that had no meaning to you.

If you give in to the pressure you lose your natural curiosity and it puts on a nature that isn't natural to you. Knowledge starts pouring in your head like so much meaningless noise. Knowledge is no longer an ever unfolding wonder but a bore and a chore. You were just dumbed down for what is called in religious parlance "Satan's kingdom".

You react in one of two ways - rebel or conform. Rebel and try to block out the meaningless noise with loud music and drugs (one example) or conform and become an intellectual trying to make sense addicted to learning meaningless facts and rules. Either way you are controlled by an external pressure. The propensity to be outwardly controlled is the sin state that the whole world lives in. The community is supposed to represent being freed from this sin state but in reality is no different.

I lived in the community 3 and a half years and have been in contact with many people who lived there much longer. I don't know if you're familiar with the term narcissism but people are in love with an image of themselves and never let you see their real self. I saw little signs of things wrong there like people being mean - you wouldn't catch it if you didn't live there and even then you'd think it was an aberration.

They have this thing there they want to be of one mind but it isn't according to God but their ego. As long as you fit into their lifestyle and go along with everything they do you get the acceptance ignorantly perceived as love. They're a little more lenient when you first become a member. Even they are probably not aware of what they are doing as is the subtle nature of pride.
cont.

nabashalam said...

I took time to myself there to do yoga exercises and read the Bible on my own - yoga, my liberty as long as I don't cause anyone stumbling by it, Bible my right as a believer. Although they couldn't find any fault with that it was different enough to be considered independent and dangerous, kind of like if you quit drugs or sex - your friends might feel a little uncomfortable but still let you hang with them - that's how radical thinking for yourself is there. The real clincher that woke me up to where they are coming from is when they tested me.

As you grow older, and may see a little now, you'll see there are little decisions that seem unimportant at the time but change the whole course of your life. - not things you usually notice when drinking, drugging and sexing - in a compulsive way.
I was in the deli with Joshua Brosseau. He asked me to jar peanut butter. As I was jarring it he falsely accused me of being disobedient. Joshua is not my father nor an elder - he's a few years younger than me. I'm not required to be obedient to him though I did submit to him. He was testing me cause he hated me for using my mind.

I turned to Joshua and told him - "All lies are from the devil". Joshua didn't know what to do so he went to the elders. The elders were going to kick me out for not submitting to Joshua. They teach it is better to be wrong and united than right and divided but the Bible commends us to love truth even if we get rejected for so doing. The only reason they didn't kick me out was I told them Ehud (David Woodward) teaches that the devil doesn't just fly in magically but comes in through a brother or sister.

The clincher is cause I found a basis for what I did on their teaching (not the Bible's), not because it was right, they let me stay. They forgave me though I did nothing wrong. This wasn't an aberration but from the elders and Joshua didn't have to apologies for his false accusation. They acted like he did nothing wrong. I could have given in to the peer pressure but I didn't and it changed the course of my life. Giving your will to another person is giving it to the devil even if he's disguised as a minister of Christ.

Your parent's job is to lead you into what is right in your life. They shouldn't be making learning a bore and a chore and that inner sense they should have protected is better than drugs or the kind of sex that has no future and is dangerous. If you accept Christ you agree to stop sinning and any Church should not tolerate the things that enslave you to environment, sin, but it is not their call to force their will on you and pressure you to lie. That is the job of the devil and that is who is ruling in the Churches.

You're the one who hasn't spent time in the community and are too caught up in sin to recognize it or not caring enough to know what it is. We both lived there and gave up all we had to do what we believed was God's will until we found out otherwise and made the even harder decision to give up everything all over again trusting God would show us the way. If you believe it's from God go live there. We know what we are speaking of when it comes to community and there are much more graphic and obvious examples than my own.
from chasemyra@verizon.net

nabashalam said...

Here is another email I received from a different friend... It's SPOT ON!

"In the TT communities, the evidence is that they will not
correct the wrongs. That's why the Kesher and Sarah situation was
handled in the same way it has been since Mary's (Hakam's wife) was.
In other words it's the 'they must have done evil or Our Father
wouldn't have let this come upon them, so let's have a meeting of the
elders to see just why' practice that remains the standard. To claim
error in there methods would be to claim fallibility in their prophet.
To claim fallibility in their prophet would cause doubts of judgment
in all matters to spring up and bring about division. So the evils and
wrongs prevail.

What a mess!!!!

nabashalam said...

I pray the Government of the Tribes watch this!

This is a huge major Christian Church that confesses it's a cult and starts to live in Grace and not the law or works...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMGJERAGMT4&aia=true


God open their ears to hear!

nabashalam said...

here's the active link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMGJERAGMT4&aia=true

nabashalam said...

Here is another letter from my friend "Anonymous" which I hope is read by those with ears to hear...

David, now that the Twelve Tribes are getting deeper into the law by
their keeping of the Old covenant festivals, I thought that you'd be
interested in the article I refer to here:
Jesus, the Sabbath and Old Testament Festivals
http://www.wcg.org/lit/law/jesussab.htm

Although not mentioned in the article, Paul talks about the Jewish converts, that accepted Yahshua as Messiah, as being ignorant about Yahshua having fulfilled the law and being the end of the Old Covenant laws. In Romans chapter 10 Paul says of them "My hearts desire and
prayer to God for Israel is that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
For being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to
establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to
the righteousness of God. For Yahshua is the end of the law for
righteousness to everyone that believeth. For Moses describeth the
righteousness which is of the law, that the man that doeth those
things shall live by them. But the rightousness which is by faith
speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into
heaven/ (That is to bring Yahshua down from above) Or who shall
descend into the deep? (That is to bring up Yahshua again from the
dead.)
Paul is saying that the shadow or types that we're play out in the
cerremonial laws and festivals were all pointing to Yahshua's coming, and that he came and fulfilled the law. That was the end of it. He was saying, "What shall we erase the death, the resurrection and ascension
to heaven and keep on keeping the laws as if he has not yet come, as
if he had not fulfilled the prophecy as depicted in the ceremonies and festivals?"
The festivals are no longer legally necessary. The Old
Testament was the time of the flesh. We are now in the New Covenant time of the Spirit. We walk by faith and are empowered to overcome the feelings and emotions, the impulses and urges, the habits inherited and cultivated by associations and worldly influences, by the power of
God which is grace that is administered by the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:13),
as we persevere to keep the flesh under subjection daily. We die daily in this battle. We, as Paul did, "fight the good fight"( 2Tim 4:7,
1Tim 6:12. He that endureth in this to the end will be saved.(John
6:27, James 1:12) This is what is meant by taking up our cross. We
maintain our perseverance by the continual study of the life of
Yahshua. The love in him that the Holy Spirit continues to bring to us in deeper revelation as time goes on renews us, should our ardor flag, and bolsters our faith, propelling us forward in the battle. Just being a member of a group won't save you, but this will. We were shaped in iniquity and in sin did our mothers bear us (Psalm 51:5). We can't trust our natural feelings and emotions, impulses and urges.

nabashalam said...

They are liars. We need to keep them under subjection and walk after the directions of the Spirit as given in the Law of Yahshua, the New Covenant "Way" as Holy men of God spoke and recorded for us as they were moved by the Holy Spirit (2Pet 1:21).
If Ha'emeq had followed this Gospel she would have never fallen.
Depending on "My brothers" for my strength won't do. We are to point
people to the true Light for their power. We are men. We can counsel,
but we can't supply the wisdom and strength in the capacity that only
God has. People are faulty and fallible and can not replace what your personal relationship with the Holy Spirit alone can offer and do. The more time we spend with Him in the words of scripture, the more weapons we accumulate against the temtpter. King David said, "I have
hid thy word in my heart that I sin not against thee". The scripture is "the sword of the Spirit" (Eph 6:17). It's "The sword of the Lord and Gideon", Gideon alone hasn't got a chance.

Every day is a march and a battle. Be careful what influences you put
yourself in the midst of. There will be ups and downs. "A just man
falleth seven times, and riseth up again, but the wicked shall fall
into mischief" (Prov. 24:16). As soon as we realize that we've stepped off of the path, repent and return to the right way. Our Father stands ready to forgive, "For thou Lord art good and ready to forgive; and
plenteous in mercy to all them that call upon thee" (Psalm 86:5). When our Father instructs us to forgive even 70 times seven (Matt 18:22) in a day to those who seek to repent, then we must realize that He is of the same mind, "He that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (John6:37).
Who, of the Twelve Tribes, does one think they are to "cut off"
someone for days or weeks until they decide to grant them absolution when they have already confessed their sins and asked for forgiveness?
Who do they think they are to keep a repentant one from praying to God
and dancing and singing praises to Him? Making them wait for
forgiveness is evil and stinks of Catholicism and penance to pay for their sins. Thank God they aren't required to self flagellate with whips and climb the cathedral stairs on their knees. They claim, they're "learning to love". 35 years and they haven't learned yet. But of course, the leadership is infallible, so what's there to correct? It's pitiful, just pitiful!!! They'd probably tell you that they don't need your prayers or advise, but they do. I do not think that you could
find a better example of "the blind leading the blind" than that which is The Twelve Tribes of Yoneq. It's too bad because I wanted so much for them to be what they said they were, but they are not. They could have been, and perhaps, by some miracle, could still become what they were supposed to be, but right now, they surely are not.

"To as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God"

Peace, grace and power from the Holy Spirit to all who truly seek Him,

In Love,
Anonymous

nabashalam said...

Sound familiar???

http://factnet.org/?p=631


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px1n4h5aYwo&feature=player_embedded

nabashalam said...

Let your moderation be known unto all men.Phil. 4:5.

God must have
forgotten to inform Yoneq.
---------------

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64A2SR2010051

(Reuters) - People working 10 or 11 hours a day are more likely to
suffer serious heart problems, including heart attacks, than those
clocking off after seven hours, researchers said on Tuesday.

U.S. | Health | Lifestyle

The finding, from an 11-year study of 6,000 British civil servants,
does not provide definitive proof that long hours cause coronary heart
disease but it does show a clear link, which experts said may be due
to stress.

In all, there were 369 cases of death due to heart disease, non-fatal
heart attacks and angina among the London-based study group -- and the
risk of having an adverse event was 60 percent higher for those who
worked three to four hours overtime.

Working an extra one to two hours beyond a normal seven-hour day was
not associated with increased risk.

"It seems there might a threshold, so it is not so bad if you work
another hour or so more than usual," said Dr Marianna Virtanen, an
epidemiologist at the Finnish Institute of Occupational Health and
University College London.

The higher incidence of heart problems among those working overtime
was independent of a range of other risk factors including smoking,
being overweight or having high cholesterol.

But Virtanen said it was possible the lifestyle of people working long
hours deteriorated over time, for example as a result of poor diet or
increased alcohol consumption.

More fundamentally, long hours may be associated with work-related
stress, which interferes with metabolic processes, as well as
"sickness presenteeism," whereby employees continue working when they
are ill.

Virtanen and colleagues published their findings in the European Heart Journal.

Commenting on the study, Gordon McInnes, professor of clinical
pharmacology at the University of Glasgow's Western Infirmary, said
the findings could have widespread implications for doctors assessing
patients' heart risks.

"If the effect is truly causal, the importance is much greater than
commonly recognized. Overtime-induced work stress might contribute to
a substantial proportion of cardiovascular disease," he said.

---------------

nabashalam said...

Lack of sleep linked to early death: study

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20100505/tts-health-science-sleep-britain-italy-cac1e9b.html



LONDON (AFP) - – People who get less than six hours sleep per night
have an increased risk of dying prematurely, researchers said on
Wednesday.

Those who slumbered for less than that amount of time were 12 percent
more likely to die early, though researchers also found a link between
sleeping more than nine hours and premature death.

"If you sleep little, you can develop diabetes, obesity, hypertension
and high cholesterol," Francesco Cappuccio, who led research on the
subject at Britain's University of Warwick, told AFP.

The study, conducted with the Federico II University in Naples, Italy,
aggregated decade-long studies from around the world involving more
than 1.3 million people and found "unequivocal evidence of the direct
link" between lack of sleep and premature death.

"We think that the relation between little sleep and illness is due to
a series of hormonal and metabolical mechanisms," Cappuccio said.

The findings of the study were published in the Sleep journal.

Cappuccio believes the duration of sleep is a public health issue and
should be considered as a behavioural risk factor by doctors.

"Society pushes us to sleep less and less," Cappuccio said, adding
that about 20 percent of the population in the United States and
Britain sleeps less than five hours.

Sleeping less than six hours is "more common amongst full-time
workers, suggesting that it may be due to societal pressures for
longer working hours and more shift work"

The study also found a link between sleeping more than nine hours per
night and premature death, but Cappuccio said oversleeping is more
likely to be an effect of illness, rather than a cause.

"Doctors never ask how much one sleeps, but that could be an indicator
that something is wrong," said Cappuccio, who heads the Sleep, Health
and Society Programme at the University of Warwick.

Research showed no adverse effects for those sleeping between six and
eight hours per day.

Anonymous said...

Just wanted to post my blog about my experiences in the twelve tribes.

http://twelvetribeswinnipeg.blogspot.com

nabashalam said...

Here is a new blog from an ex-member who will remain anonymous...

At least in "the world" they can let their God given talents and juices flow...

http://www.panentheisticholism.org/

Eric Christopherson said...

Some may find this very strange, but as an ex-member who has been especially caustic toward the communities at times and written very critical words, I plan to return to live at the communities in the near future.

I'd appreciate it if the "89 Reasons For Leaving" that I wrote in approx. 1998 be removed from this site, for it does contain untruths that I wrote in anger.

I wish all the very best

I have not found a more meaningful daily life where people love God and Yahshua, and each other, and welcome others.

Perhaps some of you will now consider me an enemy, I don't know. But I just want what's best for each person.

I know my brothers and sisters in the communities still love me. And I want that kind of love also, and not waste any more years of my life.
Eric Christopherson

Anonymous said...

Why was David "a man after God's own heart"?
The reason of David being "a man after God's own heart" goes along along with the verse of "let this mind be in you which was in the Annointed Yahshua" because David became a man that saw that he was to seek to understand as best as he could to incorporate the ways that our heavenly Father intended him to live in relation to Him and our fellow man into his life.
By the same reasoning, we are to let "the way, truth and the life" as demonstrated by Yahshua and given to us by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God become the directives of our minds and life force. We have to "let" it because the natural heart of man is not of this "way". Hence, the daily battle to keep the flesh, impulses, urges and habits of the natural heart, under subjection, by the will, accompanied by the grace of God through the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:13 "If you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live".

In order to have our Father's heart, we have to think our Father's thoughts. The Holy Spirit brings us to deeper understanding as we "abide with Him and in His word". As we allow "the Sword of the Spirit, His word, cut us "to the bone and marrow", showing us our sins that need to be overcome, we begin the process of sanctification. If we are not having this experience, then we do not understand the meaning of salvation.
The result of the experience is a greater understanding of the ugliness of sin, and the beauty of His way, truth and life. We decide not to engage in any willful sin, in any capacity, lest we give support to the king and kingdom of darkness and all the evils that befall men.

We glorify God when we choose to totally trust His direction and correction after we come to the realization that there can only be one authority and one system that gives life. The view from heaven that sees the evidence of more than one system of authority testifies to the fact that anything more than one "way" will always result in war, death and destruction.

We glorify God when we come to understand our need to submit to His authority and system of life in appreciation of His devising of saving us from the blinding power of sin and opening up our hearts to the reality of the situation between Heaven and Earth.

We glorify God when we trust His 'way" in desire to live it when we realize that the life and spirit we are born under and personalities we have inherited and developed by the influences of the world are a phony existence and not what we were originally created to be like.

God created us in His Spirit of giving, that we would be vessels for His Spirit; two becoming one to multiply and inhabit the vast stretches of the universe. This was the original plan, and it is what is meant by the phrase,"the restoration of all things". This is His Kingdom. God did not create us so we could fall into sin and be delivered, but so that we would fill the universe with inhabitants of His heart; a people that lay down their lives for each other in total trust that their appointed functions give life to each other which continues the same Spirit of giving that emanates from our Father. As it flows from Him, it returns from His subjects and back out again in a continuous cycle. You could liken it to the circulatory system of the body, but instead of blood, it's His Spirit flowing through His Body of Holy beings."So shall my word be that floweth forth out of my mouth; it shall not return unto me void" Isaiah 55:11. This is what gives life. This is Love; our Father's Heart. All made possible to us through the goodness and severity of God on the cross. Our God truly is an awesome God!
Azariah Freedom

Anonymous said...

Why was David "a man after God's own heart"?
The reason of David being "a man after God's own heart" goes along along with the verse of "let this mind be in you which was in the Annointed Yahshua" because David became a man that saw that he was to seek to understand as best as he could to incorporate the ways that our heavenly Father intended him to live in relation to Him and our fellow man into his life.
By the same reasoning, we are to let "the way, truth and the life" as demonstrated by Yahshua and given to us by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God become the directives of our minds and life force. We have to "let" it because the natural heart of man is not of this "way". Hence, the daily battle to keep the flesh, impulses, urges and habits of the natural heart, under subjection, by the will, accompanied by the grace of God through the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:13 "If you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live".

In order to have our Father's heart, we have to think our Father's thoughts. The Holy Spirit brings us to deeper understanding as we "abide with Him and in His word". As we allow "the Sword of the Spirit, His word, cut us "to the bone and marrow", showing us our sins that need to be overcome, we begin the process of sanctification. If we are not having this experience, then we do not understand the meaning of salvation.
The result of the experience is a greater understanding of the ugliness of sin, and the beauty of His way, truth and life. We decide not to engage in any willful sin, in any capacity, lest we give support to the king and kingdom of darkness and all the evils that befall men.

We glorify God when we choose to totally trust His direction and correction after we come to the realization that there can only be one authority and one system that gives life. The view from heaven that sees the evidence of more than one system of authority testifies to the fact that anything more than one "way" will always result in war, death and destruction.

We glorify God when we come to understand our need to submit to His authority and system of life in appreciation of His devising of saving us from the blinding power of sin and opening up our hearts to the reality of the situation between Heaven and Earth.

We glorify God when we trust His 'way" in desire to live it when we realize that the life and spirit we are born under and personalities we have inherited and developed by the influences of the world are a phony existence and not what we were originally created to be like.

Anonymous said...

Why was David "a man after God's own heart"?
The reason of David being "a man after God's own heart" goes along along with the verse of "let this mind be in you which was in the Annointed Yahshua" because David became a man that saw that he was to seek to understand as best as he could to incorporate the ways that our heavenly Father intended him to live in relation to Him and our fellow man into his life.
By the same reasoning, we are to let "the way, truth and the life" as demonstrated by Yahshua and given to us by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God become the directives of our minds and life force. We have to "let" it because the natural heart of man is not of this "way". Hence, the daily battle to keep the flesh, impulses, urges and habits of the natural heart, under subjection, by the will, accompanied by the grace of God through the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:13 "If you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live".

In order to have our Father's heart, we have to think our Father's thoughts. The Holy Spirit brings us to deeper understanding as we "abide with Him and in His word". As we allow "the Sword of the Spirit, His word, cut us "to the bone and marrow", showing us our sins that need to be overcome, we begin the process of sanctification. If we are not having this experience, then we do not understand the meaning of salvation.
The result of the experience is a greater understanding of the ugliness of sin, and the beauty of His way, truth and life. We decide not to engage in any willful sin, in any capacity, lest we give support to the king and kingdom of darkness and all the evils that befall men.

We glorify God when we choose to totally trust His direction and correction after we come to the realization that there can only be one authority and one system that gives life. The view from heaven that sees the evidence of more than one system of authority testifies to the fact that anything more than one "way" will always result in war, death and destruction.

We glorify God when we come to understand our need to submit to His authority and system of life in appreciation of His devising of saving us from the blinding power of sin and opening up our hearts to the reality of the situation between Heaven and Earth.

We glorify God when we trust His 'way" in desire to live it when we realize that the life and spirit we are born under and personalities we have inherited and developed by the influences of the world are a phony existence and not what we were originally created to be like.

Anonymous said...

Why was David "a man after God's own heart"?
The reason of David being "a man after God's own heart" goes along along with the verse of "let this mind be in you which was in the Annointed Yahshua" because David became a man that saw that he was to seek to understand as best as he could to incorporate the ways that our heavenly Father intended him to live in relation to Him and our fellow man into his life.
By the same reasoning, we are to let "the way, truth and the life" as demonstrated by Yahshua and given to us by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God become the directives of our minds and life force. We have to "let" it because the natural heart of man is not of this "way". Hence, the daily battle to keep the flesh, impulses, urges and habits of the natural heart, under subjection, by the will, accompanied by the grace of God through the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:13 "If you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live".

In order to have our Father's heart, we have to think our Father's thoughts. The Holy Spirit brings us to deeper understanding as we "abide with Him and in His word". As we allow "the Sword of the Spirit, His word, cut us "to the bone and marrow", showing us our sins that need to be overcome, we begin the process of sanctification. If we are not having this experience, then we do not understand the meaning of salvation.
The result of the experience is a greater understanding of the ugliness of sin, and the beauty of His way, truth and life. We decide not to engage in any willful sin, in any capacity, lest we give support to the king and kingdom of darkness and all the evils that befall men.

We glorify God when we choose to totally trust His direction and correction after we come to the realization that there can only be one authority and one system that gives life. The view from heaven that sees the evidence of more than one system of authority testifies to the fact that anything more than one "way" will always result in war, death and destruction.

We glorify God when we come to understand our need to submit to His authority and system of life in appreciation of His devising of saving us from the blinding power of sin and opening up our hearts to the reality of the situation between Heaven and Earth.

We glorify God when we trust His 'way" in desire to live it when we realize that the life and spirit we are born under and personalities we have inherited and developed by the influences of the world are a phony existence and not what we were originally created to be like.

nabashalam said...

A Religious Studies Student is looking for help...

Especially the youth's and long timers who have left. Here is the email he sent me...

Mr. Pike,

I am a graduate student in the department of religious studies at the University of Kansas. I am working on a research project regarding the lives of ex-TT members who have spent most of their lives in the group, even grown up in the group, and am having trouble locating people to interview. I am in touch with the group, but as you can imagine, they would not be willing to put me in contact with children who have left. I was wondering if you would be kind enough to direct me in the right direction to find and speak with some ex-members. I have exhausted all resources and stumbled upon an ABC news clip.

Thank you in advance

Torang

So if you are interested in helping this young man out please email him at TorangAsadi@ku.edu
Thanks folks! David

nabashalam said...

Recently exited “Cult Members”…Tell your story…help others. MSNBC needs your help!

http://factnet.org/?p=686

nabashalam said...

They are selling the Melville House in Boston!!!

When the Tribes sell such a corner stone of the structure, it points to the whole building collapsing...

Not to mention of the dozens of disciples leaving every which way you look...

Is this the beginning of the end?

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/92-Melville-Ave-Dorchester-Center-MA-02124/59105031_zpid/

nabashalam said...

The Discovery Channel along with a British TV poduction company is looking for ex-cult members to help in a new documentary/drama series…

Raw Television (www.rawtelevision.co.uk) is a British TV production company. We have been asked by the U.S. Discovery Channel network to develop a new documentary-drama series with the working title ‘Dangerous Persuasions’.

The series tells the stories of people who have at one time been subject to mind / behavioural control by others. This undue influence has led them into actions that have been injurious to themselves and/or others. The series seeks to tell these people’s stories of subjugation and ultimate survival. The hope is that the stories will be a testament to the power of the human spirit to overcome crushing psychological adversity. The other intention is to demonstrate how anyone of us could become trapped in a controlling group – it’s NOT something that happens to ‘weak-willed’ people.

In order to tell these stories each one-hour program will use first-person, on-camera interviews from the main contributor. Their testimony and that of their family and/or friends and the people who’ve helped them forms the basis of the dramatic reconstructions that will be used to illustrate the story. There is no narrator.

The Discovery network want us to determine whether such a series is possible, whether there are enough interesting stories out there, and whether there are people willing to tell them. During this development period we’ve been tasked with reaching out to organizations that work with people who’ve been through such experiences. Initially, we just want to talk to people on the telephone (with no commitment to appear implied), our next task is to present story précis to Discovery for their consideration. I should emphasize that we are still at the development stage of this project and there is no guarantee that the series will be made. However, it certainly won’t get made if we don’t find ANY stories to offer up.

If you feel able to share your story – on the telephone at least – please contact Peter Johonnett at Raw Television. The best way to reach him is via email at peter.johonnett@rawtelevision.co.uk . The development period for this project runs through August, we are hoping to hear from any willing contributors as soon as possible. We hope this project is something you’d at least be interested in finding out a bit more about and look forward to hearing from you.

Very best regards,

Peter

Peter Johonnett
Story Producer

2nd Floor Solecast House | 13-27 Brunswick Place | London | N1 6DX

Switchboard: + 44 (0) 20 7017 1650 | Fax: + 44 (0) 20 7017 1651

www.rawtelevision.co.uk

Anonymous said...

http://comfortandlove.wordpress.com/

For my German Speaking Visitors

Follow this link to review a presentation made by Leipzig student Florian Böhnhardt.

Boehnhardt Zwoelf Staemme 2007

For my French Speaking Visitors

Interesting news article concerning the Sus House (castle) and controversy in France with the Twelve Tribes.

Entre bric à brac et vie de château, les drôles d'apôtres de l'Ordre Apostolique... (Tabitha's Place)


Click on the following link to get a wealth of information from an Anti-Cult Site in France

http://www.prevensectes.com/tabitha.htm

News Reel-1 on Tabitha's Place

News Reel-2 on Tabitha's Place


Place a checkmark beside all items that characterize the group in question. If you check many of these items, and particularly if you check most of them, you might consider examining the group more closely.

The above check list comes from Dr. Michael Langone, editor of Cultic Studies Journal, and often characterize manipulative groups. Dr. Langone suggest prospective recruits and family members compare these statements to the group. If one or more of these apply to your group you may have a cause for concern. I say, if all apply as in the case of the Twelve Tribes, you should repent (turn 180 degrees) and run.

Please Leave a Review


Yoneq 2004

I dedicate this song to Yoneq and the elders of the TT


Elbert Eugene Spriggs

Ok - This one is a little angry, but therapeutic just the same

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